Creationism, Intelligent Design & Evolutionism
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This is thread is primarily for discussing issues related to Creationism and Evolutionism. For a start, here's what I believe regarding the issue of origins:
1. The Bible is authoritative and can be trusted in what it tells us about origins as related to us in Genesis 1-11.
2. Genesis 1-11 is real history. This is also the view of the Biblical writers. There are no fictional, allegorical or metaphorical characters in those chapters. There was a real Adam and Eve in a real Garden in real time history.
3. Creation of the universe and life on earth took place in 6 literal ordinary 24-hour days, about 6,000 years ago.
4. There was a global flood that occurred about 4000 years ago which accounts for the many geological features we see today. E.g. the Grand Canyon.
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Point 4: 40 days of flood cant possible carve out grand canyon... assuming old days = nowadays. My own view is the banish of Adam and Eve causes them to end up on earth... from another planet. Mine is still a half baked concept.... Inb4elock.
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
Point 4:
40 days of flood cant possible carve out grand canyon… assuming old days = nowadays.My own view is the banish of Adam and Eve causes them to end up on earth… from another planet. Mine is still a half baked concept….
Inb4elock.
Where did you get the idea that it was just 40 days of global flood? It lasted at least a year according to Genesis. BTW, did you know that the Havasupai Indians living there had a flood explanation for the canyon? See http://creation.com/grand-canyon-legend-havasupai-indians
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So 150+30 days is possible to carve grand canyon as it is? With flood?
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
So 150+30 days is possible to carve grand canyon as it is? With flood?
Where did you get the idea that it was only 180 days of global flood? I said it was a year, at least. And I also mentioned it was a global flood where the highest mountain (at that time, not today) was covered. That's a lot of water.
FYI, the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1982 formed a 1/40 “scale model” of Grand Canyon in just 5 days. We knew because the scientists and researchers were there to capture the whole eruption. But had there been no one to witness that, you would have thought it took millions of years for those layers upon layers to be laid down.
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So the context now is not what's written in the bible but what you said... Ok noted.
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
So the context now is not what's written in the bible but what you said... Ok noted.
What I said is what's in the Bible. Please take time to read Genesis slowly and carefully. If you need help as to how the flood duration is derived, see http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/08/23/overview-flood-timeline
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http://www.epicidiot.com/evo_cre/noahs_flood.htm
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
The URL itself already tells a lot about the prejudice of the author than about the subject matter. It is then no wonder that it is more Bible bashing than intellectual arguments presented. The author exhibits a cavalier dismissive attitude and shows no interest in taking creationists seriously. Without casting pearls before swine I shall not waste too much time responding to such people who does not treat those with whom they disagree due respect and civility. Only a few points would suffice, and I don't suppose you are keen to defend anything on this website, nor do you ever intend to engage seriously. As I have shown in the earlier posts you have been wrong on the duration of the Flood already.
A world wide flood would leave massive amounts of geological evidence behind; and it just doesn't exist.
Indeed the Flood must have left evidence behind. Creationists say the evidence is there before us. Both creationists and evolutionists are looking at the same world, same geological features, but having a DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION on how it came to be so.
Every ancient culture had its history and its mythology. When an ancient culture records stories about talking snakes, magic fruit, people living inside of giant fish, and gathering representative members of every species of animal and living on a boat for almost a year, one should automatically realize that they were recording their mythology and not their history.
Which begs the question, why should anyone "automatically" realise that this is mythology and not history? The author is not even making an argument, just an assertion that he assumes must be true.
The Great Pyramid of Cheops was built about 2589-2566 BC, about 230 years before the flood, yet it has no water marks on it.
MOST creationists believe that the pyramids were built AFTER the Flood, not before (see http://creation.com/the-pyramids-of-ancient-egypt). Of course you would then say the dates don't match up. Oh really? Then you should catch up with the view that the Egyptian chronology is in need of an overhaul (see http://creation.com/egyptian-history-and-the-biblical-record-a-perfect-match).
But I must also point out that there is at least one creationist David Larsen I read (http://www.amazon.com/Dinosaurs-Ark-David-Larsen/dp/1572585692), who believe that the pyramids were pre-Flood and that there are water marks on it (see http://www.examiner.com/article/the-great-pyramid-and-the-great-flood and http://www.helium.com/items/277259-how-water-affects-land-formations-and-erosion).
Where did the water needed for the flood come from? Where did it go? The atmosphere only holds enough moisture to account for about an inch of water worldwide. To cover even Mount Ararat, where Noah's Ark supposedly landed after the flood, in 40 days would require over 400 feet of water per day. That's not 400 inches, but 400 feet a day. And Everest would require 725 feet per day - that's 30 feet of water per hour! Some claim that the mountains didn't exist before the flood. But even Bible speaks of great mountains in the time before the flood. Were these great mountains mentioned in the Bible only a few feet high?
The author, like most Bible critics, obviously did not read the Bible carefully. Why should mountains at that time be the SAME mountains we see today? Creationists believe that the present mountains were uplifted as the floodwaters receded. Also the main source of the water is from under the ground when the Bible states that the fountains of the deep burst open. Mind you there are still large amounts of subterranean water in the earth today. Then of course there is the 40 days of rain. And where did the water go? See http://creation.com/where-did-all-the-water-go
This would suffice for now. I want to put my pearls to better use. All these usual objections have been answered and addressed. Don't just accept what any epic idiot tells you (lest you become one yourself), read up the other side here http://creation.com/noahs-flood-questions-and-answers
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"MOST creationists believe that the pyramids were built AFTER the Flood, not before (see http://creation.com/the-pyramids-of-ancient-egypt). Of course you would then say the dates don't match up. Oh really? Then you should catch up with the view that the Egyptian chronology is in need of an overhaul (see http://creation.com/egyptian-history-and-the-biblical-record-a-perfect-match)."
Wa serious?
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
"MOST creationists believe that the pyramids were built AFTER the Flood, not before (see http://creation.com/the-pyramids-of-ancient-egypt). Of course you would then say the dates don't match up. Oh really? Then you should catch up with the view that the Egyptian chronology is in need of an overhaul (see http://creation.com/egyptian-history-and-the-biblical-record-a-perfect-match)."
Wa serious?
Lagi serious!
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Reason for the Hope
wat poor soul would comes out with such an overline?
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Originally posted by lce:
Reason for the Hope
wat poor soul would comes out with such an overline?
The Apostle Peter wrote in 1 Peter 3:15, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."
There you go.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
The Apostle Peter wrote in 1 Peter 3:15, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."
There you go.
for all i noe yr bible is just a book of faith n nothing more -
Originally posted by lce:
for all i noe yr bible is just a book of faith n nothing moreCorrection, it is a book of faith AND more.
That's all you know and think it is. Anyway it's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Such (baseless) assertions are plentiful and thrown about and do not deserve much response. But if you have an argument to support it, then I will be happy to hear it.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Correction, it is a book of faith AND more.
That's all you know and think it is. Anyway it's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Such (baseless) assertions are plentiful and thrown about and do not deserve much response. But if you have an argument to support it, then I will be happy to hear it.
if jesus was a scamp, wat makes u? -
I am glad I am out of Christianity.
For those still in it, do yourself and your so called God a favour - never never condemn people to hell if they refuse to accept Jesus, your God or whatsoever! i never did that when I was a christian.
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Originally posted by lce:
if jesus was a scamp, wat makes u?But you have given me no good reason to think Jesus was a scamp. In fact, I know of no reputable scholar who thinks Jesus was a scamp.
But there are good reasons to think that Jesus was who He claimed to be, God. So if Jesus is God, what makes you?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
But you have given me no good reason to think Jesus was a scamp. In fact, I know of no reputable scholar who thinks Jesus was a scamp.
But there are good reasons to think that Jesus was who He claimed to be, God. So if Jesus is God, what makes you?
If Jesus is god, tat makes me human to question him -
Originally posted by lce:
If Jesus is god, tat makes me human to question himWrong. If Jesus is God, then He is your Creator and you owe your very existence to Him. So you should know your place in God's created order. In the Bible Job questioned God about many things and demanded answers from God. But in the end when God spoke, Job was humbled and repented when he finally realised that he was questioning his Maker of which he has no right to. Problem with man is that we think we are so smart. But compared to what God knows, we know next to nothing.
Don't get me wrong. It's fine to ask questions about God and to God from the position of humility and one seeking to understand. But when you think you can question God, you are taking a haughty and arrogant attitude as if you can sit over God and interrogate and judge Him. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Wrong. If Jesus is God, then He is your Creator and you owe your very existence to Him. So you should know your place in God's created order. In the Bible Job questioned God about many things and demanded answers from God. But in the end when God spoke, Job was humbled and repented when he finally realised that he was questioning his Maker of which he has no right to. Problem with man is that we think we are so smart. But compared to what God knows, we know next to nothing.
Don't get me wrong. It's fine to ask questions about God and to God from the position of humility and one seeking to understand. But when you think you can question God, you are taking a haughty and arrogant attitude as if you can sit over God and interrogate and judge Him. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
bias answer
the bible was wriiten by man and man corrupts
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Originally posted by lce:
bias answer
the bible was wriiten by man and man corrupts
Your reply is not any less biased.
Just because man corrupts it does not mean that the Bible has been corrupted. Again such allegations are easy to spew, but substantiating them is another thing.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Your reply is not any less biased.
Just because man corrupts it does not mean that the Bible has been corrupted. Again such allegations are easy to spew, but substantiating them is another thing.
if man corrupts wat makes u think the bible written by man is not corrupted?
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Originally posted by lce:
if man corrupts wat makes u think the bible written by man is not corrupted?
Which begs the question, what makes you think it is? If you want to charge someone for corruption you cannot just bring the charge you must also give the grounds and provide evidential support. So lets see what evidence you have. At the least you must have a benchmark or the perfect Bible in order to make the comparison that what the rest of us have are corruptions. You judge how crooked a line is by lining it against a straight line. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Which begs the question, what makes you think it is? If you want to charge someone for corruption you cannot just bring the charge you must also give the grounds and provide evidential support. So lets see what evidence you have. At the least you must have a benchmark or the perfect Bible in order to make the comparison that what the rest of us have are corruptions. You judge how crooked a line is by lining it against a straight line.
Practically, there is no perfect straight line n there is no perfect humanwould someone wrote his wrong doing in his autobiography?
