Financing of overseas education (Australia)...
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Hi there,
Regarding the title, I would like to seek assistance in gathering the experiences and opinions of people here. I am currently considering to further my education in Australia and am trying to determine how financially feasible it is. I reckon that I will require about AUD$100K (roughly equivalent to S$130K) for the education.
I have applied to several Australian universities (those which are recognised) for their law programmes. The good thing is that I've been accepted to all the universities which I've applied to. The downside is the raising of the fees and living expenses for my study. Am trying to see how feasible it is for me to raise the required amount through loans from banks/financial institutions. The AUD$100K includes tuition fees and living expenses for the university which is charging the lowest.
I will be going for the graduate entry as I have a first degree. So it will be three years instead of the usual four.
I saw from available information in Singapore's Board of Legal Education and it was mentioned that University of Tasmania (UTAS) is accepted. Among all the universities which I had applied to, UTAS is the most affordable with its tuition fees at AUD$12,500 a year. Total tuition fees for three years will be AUD$37,500. I reckon the balance from AUD$100K will be enough.
I have not made the decision with regards to practising in Singapore upon completion of the programme. Just want to ensure that it's accepted by Singapore so it will not be a problem should I decide to return to Singapore.
I would prefer to have to go to my parents at the very last resort as I do not wish to burden them though I will be repaying them. So am rather lost at the moment and has no sense of direction.In any case, I hope to gather as many opinions as possible so that I will be satisfied with the final decision of whether to go for it.
Questions: How is the sum raised normally (Financial support from parents, loans from banks/financial institutions, etc.)? May I please hear from people here?
Thanks all.
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I did it three ways ... from parents, from a bank, from my own savings ....
presumably, because you already have a first degree, you should be able to put up most of the tuition fees by yourself ? ....
that, i think, would be the most important component ... living expenses is secondary, if you're driven and entrepreneurial enough you can easily work part time and pay your own way ....
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Hi Fatum,
Thanks for your reply.
I guess I am one of the those unusual cases. I am 27 this year and started work with 'O' Levels. I studied for my diploma and degree part-time. I have been working for the past 9 years but do not have much savings as the diploma and degree came up to about S$32K and I paid my way through working. I have only recently completed my degree.
I do prepare to work to sustain my living expenses should I further my studies in Australia but do not want to be too hopeful that I will definitely be able to find such an arrangement.
Thanks.
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When I came to the US for my undergrad degree, my parents paid for the first semester's tuition and lodging. From the second semester onward, I worked some pretty ridiculous hours at the university's computer lab and dorm cafeteria, but this allowed me to pay for almost all of the tuition for the remaining semesters, with my parents picking up the tab for living expenses. Remember, this was back in the late 80s and early 90s when tuition at most US public universities was actually affordable.
When I continued on to grad school, I was able to obtain a grant from the college on account of my academic performance during my undergrad studies. This grant covered nearly all of the tuition expenses and I was able to pay for living expenses through my jobs at the lab and cafeteria. My parents didn't have to fork out any money at all during this time.
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Hi,
You coould try applying for an uni scholarship. Heard from a friend who is doing a postgraduate degree in Melbourne Uni that another girl who is a Singaporean doing the same course was offered two scholarships (first for $5000, then $10,000) without even applying for it. So it seems some unis are desperate to give scholarships to international students. However she got the scholarship only after accepting the course. It is nevertheless worth exploring that option.
Also, when on a student visa you are legally only allowed to work 20 hours per week during semester, no restriction during the holidays. This will impact on the potential income you could get from working while studying. Then again you have a first degree, so depending on the profession you're in, you might still be able to get a decent income from part-time work.
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Here's a few things I would check first to apply for any study course.
My own CPF.
My Insurances.
My Credit with Banks.
Scholarships, Bonds & subsidies with CDAC/Merdeka or whichever clans, clubs & company I may be in.
Then you can consider your parents CPF, their cash or even possibility of a home mortage.
A good friend was sponsored by NUS as well as Siemens for a 2nd master & doctorate. He left for Australia with only $5k cash.
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Hey ecnerwal,
My parents took care of my fees, but after the first semester I got a hang of how the place worked and took care of my other expenses.
$68 grand for three years is more than enough if you get things sorted out right. A lot of students' first inclination is to stay near uni, but you could be wasting more money by taking that as an assumption. Going a bit further out may be cheaper (accomodations near campus arealmost certainly going to be costly because of demand), so do your sums and work out if staying near campus is in fact cheaper than staying further away and getting transport. Also, don't assume that everything you need will be on campus.
Case in point: when I was doing my undergrad at Swinburne, I had to venture beyond Swinburne's library for research materials, going to Melbourne Uni, Monash and LaTrobe for journal articles. The closest of these was half an hour's drive away and if I'd had to get public transport I'd be too busy running about to get any actual work done. It didn't get any better when I went to Melbourne Uni to do my postgrad either.
The bottom line is, do your homework and work out what's not only cheaper but what allows you to work more effectively.
As for work, the letter of the law is that your student visa permits you to work for a maximum of 20 hours per week. Under normal circumstances that should allow you to just about cover accommodation, although you can work around that if you're enterprising. When I was doing my postgrad, I got offered a full-time job. I spoke to the boss and mentioned this visa issue, and we negotiated it so that I would work the full 40 hours a week, get paid for 20 of those hours but have my salary doubled for those 20 hours. As such, as a student I had a take-home of about A$33,000 a year for my last few years at uni.
It's just as well you're training to be a lawyer - the student survival skills you need to develop to deal with your circumstances will surely sharpen you skills.
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why do u have to go AUs to study in the first place.. I thought this was in the 80s and 90s.
U can do much courses now compared to last time in singapore itself... explore yr options...
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to TS , there is an alternative route for you. I am not sure of yr qualifications but if u take the diploma route in AUs, u will be paying much cheaper. Adv Dip takes 1. 5 years in Aus and choose a Tafe institution which gives a pathway to whichever Uni u want to go for eg. Holmesglen Institute of Tafe has an alliance with Deakin for some of their curses and a guranteed entry to Deakin Uni, with advanced standing of 1 to 1 1/2 yrs.
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Hi ecnerwal81,
I suggest that you do not restrict your academic route just to Oz. There are many other Universities in the world just as good and will provide an excellent education. Having studied in the UK for quite a while, I would suggest that you apply for the various scholarships that are opened to foreigners, that being the highly competitive Chevening Scholarship (http://www.chevening.com/) and the ORSAS (http://www.orsas.ac.uk/). These scholarships are bond free and would provide a substantial financial contribution to your studies. I was fortunate enough to be on the ORSAS scheme which worked out to S$150,000 for school fees and allowance over a period of 3 years. These scholarships are also well recognised in the UK and will almost guarantee a top job in an MNC in the UK.
Hope this helps and wishing you the best of luck!!
Danny from Bristol
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Hey ecnerwal,
My parents took care of my fees, but after the first semester I got a hang of how the place worked and took care of my other expenses.
$68 grand for three years is more than enough if you get things sorted out right. A lot of students' first inclination is to stay near uni, but you could be wasting more money by taking that as an assumption. Going a bit further out may be cheaper (accomodations near campus arealmost certainly going to be costly because of demand), so do your sums and work out if staying near campus is in fact cheaper than staying further away and getting transport. Also, don't assume that everything you need will be on campus.
Case in point: when I was doing my undergrad at Swinburne, I had to venture beyond Swinburne's library for research materials, going to Melbourne Uni, Monash and LaTrobe for journal articles. The closest of these was half an hour's drive away and if I'd had to get public transport I'd be too busy running about to get any actual work done. It didn't get any better when I went to Melbourne Uni to do my postgrad either.
The bottom line is, do your homework and work out what's not only cheaper but what allows you to work more effectively.
As for work, the letter of the law is that your student visa permits you to work for a maximum of 20 hours per week. Under normal circumstances that should allow you to just about cover accommodation, although you can work around that if you're enterprising. When I was doing my postgrad, I got offered a full-time job. I spoke to the boss and mentioned this visa issue, and we negotiated it so that I would work the full 40 hours a week, get paid for 20 of those hours but have my salary doubled for those 20 hours. As such, as a student I had a take-home of about A$33,000 a year for my last few years at uni.
It's just as well you're training to be a lawyer - the student survival skills you need to develop to deal with your circumstances will surely sharpen you skills.
Well done. Clap clap clap.
Guess this is, as what another thread said, what a village graduate will never experience... Lucky I managed to go for student's exchange to experience a small part of student life overseas. :(
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as im an average wage earner with no rich family, i did my undergrad and postgrad degrees thru' night schools while working full time.
so if u dont have the dough and your family can afford to cough up the $$, take this route. dont get your parents into unnecessary debts.
i dislike the fact that most singaporean couples celebrate their wedding with the money that their parents had saved for them over the years.
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Well,
it can be done.
First of all, all you need is 1st semester's fees of the uni. People who are rich enough to (or dumb enough to think that you need to) pay upfront obviously won't have clock ticking.
But for the independent lot who don't want to leech off parents or parents can't afford it, you can work for your first sem fees and first month and half expenses, including rent. You can work in SG or take loans for that, but I'd recommend working in SG for it.
Pay your first sem's fees, get a job, work 20 hours during the week and work 12 hours during the hols, full time, 6 days a week.
You'll be able to pay your fees off.
This is tried and tested, and for those who want to be truly independent and not reliant on parents, who probably would want to pay but better for them to keep the money for a rainy day.Many still have enough to save by.
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Singaporeans have a very warped perception of law. I don't understand why.
TS, just so you know, BLE req. you have 2:1 to practice in SGP. However, unlike in the UK and SGP, Australian law schools do not confer honours with you merely passing the course. To secure Hons (3rd class) from an Australian law school, you need to be just under a distinction average, which is not easy to do for a number of reasons:-
1) Local students need 99.3 out of high school (for Monash/Melb law - the top Vic law schools) - your coursemates will be amongst the best from across the State, and they make up the majority of the intake. Naturally, there will also be a number of internationals (50% will be just as able as the locals, and the other 50% will just suck - expect 30% of the latter to drop out, with the rest placing last; their results will not secure them employment anywhere in the world). I know 4 Singaporeans who did law in Australia. 1 was a bright girl from RJC. She graduated with 2nd upper class hons. The other 3 ended up failing so many units that they had to extend their course - instead of the usual 4 yrs, they took 5.
2) The marking curve.
3) The amount of work you have to do is insane. Whether JD in the States, LLB in SGP/UK/AU, you can expect at least 1000 pages of essential reading per unit (in Monash/Melb law, you do 4units/sem, 2sems/yr). Evaluate your language/critial thinking skills before you think of a career in law, and your ability to focus.
On another note, if I was placed in your position, I would look at 2nd-3rd class law schools in the UK (think Liverpool etc.). Easier path to practice in Singapore (strong bias) than a graduate from a top Australian law school (and U Tas is no where near the middle). I say 2nd-3rd class unis because I doubt any of UOL's colleges/OxBridge will be sending you a letter of admission any time soon.
It's widely accepted that many unis in Australia take int'l students as a source of funding ("cash cows"). Whether you graduate, and how well you do, is a whole other matter.
Also, it comes across to me, that you haven't applied yourself before deciding on an overseas education, and law. You should know that law is an old boys club - the tier-one and middle-tier firms will almost hire exclusively from the top law schools in the State. You wouldn't smell an interview with a large cross-region firm unless you graduate with first class hons from U Tas - different story if you want to practice locally (that is in Tasmania). Thus, you shouldn't be choosing your school based on fees. Another point to note is that the average Melb Law Grad gets at least $50kAUD/annum whereas the average Deakin Law Grad peaks at about $40k. Remember again that the Melb Law Grad is probably starting with at least, a mid-tier firm/equivalent employer so career progression is just about guaranteed.
Good luck.
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Before someone calls my credibility into question, I want to add, I am in a position to comment because I lived in Australia for just about all my life before returning to Singapore. I am also in the field, but didn't do my tertiary education in Australia.
If you're serious about law school, start by fact-checking my claims.
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if u want to study in aus, your english have to be very very good.
espcially for commerce, business and law. It is of higher standard than in singapore where they merely spoon feed u.
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Originally posted by jaezai2008:
Singaporeans have a very warped perception of law. I don't understand why.
TS, just so you know, BLE req. you have 2:1 to practice in SGP. However, unlike in the UK and SGP, Australian law schools do not confer honours with you merely passing the course. To secure Hons (3rd class) from an Australian law school, you need to be just under a distinction average, which is not easy to do for a number of reasons:-
1) Local students need 99.3 out of high school (for Monash/Melb law - the top Vic law schools) - your coursemates will be amongst the best from across the State, and they make up the majority of the intake. Naturally, there will also be a number of internationals (50% will be just as able as the locals, and the other 50% will just suck - expect 30% of the latter to drop out, with the rest placing last; their results will not secure them employment anywhere in the world). I know 4 Singaporeans who did law in Australia. 1 was a bright girl from RJC. She graduated with 2nd upper class hons. The other 3 ended up failing so many units that they had to extend their course - instead of the usual 4 yrs, they took 5.
2) The marking curve.
3) The amount of work you have to do is insane. Whether JD in the States, LLB in SGP/UK/AU, you can expect at least 1000 pages of essential reading per unit (in Monash/Melb law, you do 4units/sem, 2sems/yr). Evaluate your language/critial thinking skills before you think of a career in law, and your ability to focus.
On another note, if I was placed in your position, I would look at 2nd-3rd class law schools in the UK (think Liverpool etc.). Easier path to practice in Singapore (strong bias) than a graduate from a top Australian law school (and U Tas is no where near the middle). I say 2nd-3rd class unis because I doubt any of UOL's colleges/OxBridge will be sending you a letter of admission any time soon.
It's widely accepted that many unis in Australia take int'l students as a source of funding ("cash cows"). Whether you graduate, and how well you do, is a whole other matter.
Also, it comes across to me, that you haven't applied yourself before deciding on an overseas education, and law. You should know that law is an old boys club - the tier-one and middle-tier firms will almost hire exclusively from the top law schools in the State. You wouldn't smell an interview with a large cross-region firm unless you graduate with first class hons from U Tas - different story if you want to practice locally (that is in Tasmania). Thus, you shouldn't be choosing your school based on fees. Another point to note is that the average Melb Law Grad gets at least $50kAUD/annum whereas the average Deakin Law Grad peaks at about $40k. Remember again that the Melb Law Grad is probably starting with at least, a mid-tier firm/equivalent employer so career progression is just about guaranteed.
Good luck.
Very nice indeed. *claps claps*
A blunt reality check. :)
I don't like it, but that's the way the world is. Esp. when it comes to stuffy ol' traditional schools of knowledge like law. -
Hey ecnerwal81,
I am currently studying in The University of Tasmania. As you said, the courses here are recognised by Singapore, including the medicine course which is recognised by the Singapore Medical Council.
There is a small group of Singaporeans down here, but we are pretty close as there is a Singapore Society Students Association down here. They do organise pasar malams in the students union and other outings, so you get to taste Singapore Food once in a while, but of course not its as good as back in Singapore.
As to regard to finance, UTAS does offer scholarships but you have to apply when you are enrolled in your course here. The best thing is when you apply for the course in UTAS, you are automatically eligible for the Tasmania International Scholarship, which offers 25% reduction in your tution fees. You don't even have to apply for it, as long as your application grades are in the top 5% or 10%( can't remember) of the International students. This doesn't apply to the medicine course though. The entertainment scene is not that great, but I guess the fantastic scenery makes up for it.( The on campus accommodation is on top of a hill!)
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Hey Jaezai2008,
Just to clarify a few issues with the fascination of the rankings of the Australian Universities. I don't know about other courses, but for medicine courses, the teaching and creditability of the course is the same for the Australian Universities. The difficulty of getting accepted is the same for all the Aussie Universities, including the top ones. For UTAS, the minimum prerequisite grades to apply for medicine is AAA, Chemistry has to be one of the subjects. In addition, applicants have to take ISAT, which is a like an IQ test, like Monash med, to be considered.
So, its a misconception I believe, to think that its easier to get into Australian med courses. Of course, there are more places to apply for as there are currently 10 Aus Universities recognised by the Sing Med Council. But it is by no means easy, just because they want International students money.
For my batch, UTAS only took in 20 International students out of the 110 Australian students , so imagine the competition! Other Aus Unis take in more Internationals.
Hope this information can clarify any misconceptions.
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Originally posted by Vince Disel:
Hey Jaezai2008,
Just to clarify a few issues with the fascination of the rankings of the Australian Universities. I don't know about other courses, but for medicine courses, the teaching and creditability of the course is the same for the Australian Universities. The difficulty of getting accepted is the same for all the Aussie Universities, including the top ones. For UTAS, the minimum prerequisite grades to apply for medicine is AAA, Chemistry has to be one of the subjects. In addition, applicants have to take ISAT, which is a like an IQ test, like Monash med, to be considered.
So, its a misconception I believe, to think that its easier to get into Australian med courses. Of course, there are more places to apply for as there are currently 10 Aus Universities recognised by the Sing Med Council. But it is by no means easy, just because they want International students money.
For my batch, UTAS only took in 20 International students out of the 110 Australian students , so imagine the competition! Other Aus Unis take in more Internationals.
Hope this information can clarify any misconceptions.
with all due respect, but is this your manner of self-justification/gratification? i'm just calling it like it is. because up until you posted, i don't recall any post ever featuring, much less focusing, on medicine.
in any case, i disagree with the benchmark that you use. the appropriate measure should be the entry requirements for local students, and not for international students; the latter, as full fee paying kids, will have, bar the matter of costs, lower hurdles to cross (although on that note, i must admit for courses like medicine, it is not substantially lower).
the thing about rankings is quite simply post-graduation employment opportunities, which would not be relevant, or as relevant to you, as a MBBS student. it was not my intention to belittle UTas. not directly anyway. perhaps you would like to read my post in greater detail - i doubt very much you will disagree with what i've said because what i've said provides little insight - it really is a collection of truths.
as a figure of speech, and not based on any statistics .. you won't find 20 lawyers from UTas working for Baker & McKenzie, but there would be, at the least, a 120 from the university of melbourne.
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I guess its just the sterotypical mindset of us, believing that rankings are everything. Anyway, its interesting to know what criteria the rankings are based on. As to regard of measuring the entry requirements of local students, UTAS is by far not in any way lower than other top Aus Uni.
More employment opportunies from higher ranked universities? I guess thats the way how people and companies perceive things.
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Originally posted by Vince Disel:
I guess its just the sterotypical mindset of us, believing that rankings are everything. Anyway, its interesting to know what criteria the rankings are based on. As to regard of measuring the entry requirements of local students, UTAS is by far not in any way lower than other top Aus Uni.
More employment opportunies from higher ranked universities? I guess thats the way how people and companies perceive things.
if i am not wrong, isnt the education industry in Oz is regulated by the government?
Then it should all be the same standard right? Its absolutely dumb and absurb to believe in the ranking system. It is just another commercial flick to attract prospective students attention, particularly the international students.
I think we can group aust uni into 2 groups. The academic type that teaches you the fundamental and ideas which allows you to think and do research on it. There other focus more on the hands-on and practical, training and equipping you with skills needed for the market. So it really depends on what you want.
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Originally posted by Vince Disel:
x2...
the uni might be ranked no1. or no2.
but their strength might not be in the course you are taking...
now is a good time to study in aus since the aus dollar is slipping...
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Originally posted by SPLIT SECOND:
if i am not wrong, isnt the education industry in Oz is regulated by the government?
Then it should all be the same standard right? Its absolutely dumb and absurb to believe in the ranking system. It is just another commercial flick to attract prospective students attention, particularly the international students.
I think we can group aust uni into 2 groups. The academic type that teaches you the fundamental and ideas which allows you to think and do research on it. There other focus more on the hands-on and practical, training and equipping you with skills needed for the market. So it really depends on what you want.
That's absolute rubbish. The whole thing about every uni being equal is just propaganda so that international students who did not make the grade for the foundation stone unis will still come here with their money.There is a reason why the Go8 Unis are awarded most of Australia's research grants. There is a reason why every State has published, and continues to publish the very different and varying ENTER scores of courses/unis. As I recall, you need a 90 something ENTER for biz at melb., but only a 80 something for deakin. This may not seem like alot but bear in mind there are more students there than in Singapore - every difference in 0.1 mark (and yes, they do go that far), removes a few handfuls of prospective students. Bear in mind this was when I checked as a high school student a couple of years back, but I doubt very much that this has changed. Anyone curious enough should fact-check my claims, and state the sources upon which they challenge (should they decide to) them. There is a reason why Uni Melb, or was it Monash (or insert any Go8 uni) took in the bulk of the top scoring students in the Victoria (insert corresponding State).
Everytime I hear people cite me junk like that, I ask them, from which uni did you graduate - so far, a 100% of the time, they graduated from Deakin or Swinburne or something -.-"
I'm not being elitist - i'm merelya cknowledging facts as they are. is anyone here going to tell me that CJC is teh same standard as RJC? just look at teh entry requirements - one needs 6pts + ductions, the other ... what? 20 right? likewise, corresponding number of CJC students going on to local uni, vs RJC students going on to local uni ... and let's not forget what courses too. why do you think people say medicine/dentistry/law etc. is an old boys club?