New Born Baby: To be a Singaporean or NOT
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Please, please let your son be Australian.
The main and most important reason is NS. When he turns 18, he will thank you for doing this. The 2 years wasted doing NS is something he can't get back. Even if rich and famous still must do, whereas you have a chance to let your son not waste 2 years of his life.
Second reason is uni fees. This is much further down the track but as aussie citizen, he'll be entitled to greatly reduced uni fees in australia if he chooses to study there. International student = about A$24k per year whereas Australian citizen = about A$6k per year with option of gahmen low interest longterm loan. Over a 3 year degree thats saving about A$54k, not to be sneezed at lah.
Also important is to not let anyone pressure you and your wife one way or another. This decision will affect your son in the LONG TERM so please think carefully about what is in his best interest in the long term.
Aeris -
It is indeed sad that Singaporeans have to think twice about whether they want their kid to be born Singaporean or otherwise.
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Originally posted by littlestream:
AU citizens get to vote 3 years before SG ones. Better to be the former than the latter.
I believe the baby (minor) can hold dual citizenship (i) aussie by birth (if born in land of oz) and (ii) s'porean by descent (till age 21).
You may check with the singapore consulate in your area or residence.
With regards to national service, this is an issue with mindef. While you may find it in their website that male leaving the country (sg) before the age of 11 may defer NS until age 21 at which time when they renounce their sg citizenship, they [b]may not need to serve NS. Note i use the words "may not" as this is on a case by case basis.
you may wish to do more research on the mindef web site.
be aware that there is also a clause that indicated that if you renounce your sg citizenship, you WILL NOT BE allowed to work in sg.
but seriously, i hope u will not live apart from your baby. it will be very sad. if it is finance, i hope you can find an alternate solution.
research, go talk to the consulate. i hope the ones you have there can be helpful and compassionate. good luck and all the very best.[/b] -
Hey, we Singaporeans are pragmatic people.
My advice is based on the assumption that either you or your spouse already have PR and are on the path to gaining Australian citizenship.
TS, get Australian citizenship for your son. By birth, he is already a Singaporean national if you register his birth with the Embassy.This will lead to two choices eventually.
Should you have already registered his birth, when he turns 16.5, he will have to come back and register for NS and report back when he turns 18, which would be after high school. This is because you cannot legally surrender your citizenship unless you are above the age of 21, to the best of my knowledge.
If you have not registered his birth, it's simpler. He'll be an Australian citizen. I have heard of tales (not too certain though) where our statutory boards have managed to get hold of information that you have a child, and perhaps when you visit SG in the interim, they might be able to cross-link that data and subsequently list your son as a Singaporean citizen. This might complicate things, so it is best not to inform or do anything that might lead to the ICA or MINDEF to know that you have a son etc..
The issue here is whether you want your son to have a choice when he turns 18. Personally I would want my son to have that privilege that I didn't have.It's better to come to Singapore after 25, and gain PR here. What to do..we are pragmatic by nature aren't we.
Do take professional advice from lawyers as well, because this is just my own view. -
autumncs has a very valid point. I am a S'porean in US for 17 years. Daughter is 2 yr old. You really hv to ask yourself what you want to do in future (do you really really want to stay in Aussie for good?)
I don't get to go home to Spore very frequently but I still struggle to give my baby a Spore citizenship when she turned 8 months, and that's becos I want to go back home eventually and want my daughter to grow up a sporean like I do.
My wife is indonesian and becos I don't stay in spore for more than 1 month every time I went home, she never had a chance to even get her Spore PR.
My suggestion: (assuming you wanna stay in OZ for jobs after study) bite the bullet and go thru some more years with hardship so you may bond w ur child. Borrow money from mother/father/relative so when all these hardship is over, start paying back. Apply for you son a spore citizenship (if OZ allow) until he's 18/21 and let him decide later. Ask yourself the most important question: what are the most important thing in ur life? Money? Child? Job? Good education for child? etc and list them in order and make the most imprtant decisions in hyour life with little or no regrets. -
Hmm, you got Green Card?Originally posted by nabueh:autumncs has a very valid point. I am a S'porean in US for 17 years. Daughter is 2 yr old. You really hv to ask yourself what you want to do in future (do you really really want to stay in Aussie for good?)
I don't get to go home to Spore very frequently but I still struggle to give my baby a Spore citizenship when she turned 8 months, and that's becos I want to go back home eventually and want my daughter to grow up a sporean like I do.
My wife is indonesian and becos I don't stay in spore for more than 1 month every time I went home, she never had a chance to even get her Spore PR.
My suggestion: (assuming you wanna stay in OZ for jobs after study) bite the bullet and go thru some more years with hardship so you may bond w ur child. Borrow money from mother/father/relative so when all these hardship is over, start paying back. Apply for you son a spore citizenship (if OZ allow) until he's 18/21 and let him decide later. Ask yourself the most important question: what are the most important thing in ur life? Money? Child? Job? Good education for child? etc and list them in order and make the most imprtant decisions in hyour life with little or no regrets.
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Hope i m not too late to reply to this thread. From wat i know now, singapore still dont allow dual citizenship but they are discussing abt this issue now. As for the baby nationality .. if i remember correctly .. now there is a new law that jus passed not long ago. If a couple , and one of them is singapore citizen, no matter where u give birth , ur baby will auto become a singapore citizen. Thats kinda sux !!!
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That's just low...if it's true.
Originally posted by sneezy:Hope i m not too late to reply to this thread. From wat i know now, singapore still dont allow dual citizenship but they are discussing abt this issue now. As for the baby nationality .. if i remember correctly .. now there is a new law that jus passed not long ago. If a couple , and one of them is singapore citizen, no matter where u give birth , ur baby will auto become a singapore citizen. Thats kinda sux !!! -
I hope I am not too late.
Baby born in Aus, stick to Aus.
Dont separate the baby & parent before 4 years old. Cos once the 4 years is gone, you will never be able to get it back. You can still restart your career, your education. But never be able to recapture your child's 1st 4 years.
Besides, Singapore does not have facilities or abilities to handle any child below 4 years old. Australia, like USA are more child friendly.
I am in USA now to function as a nanny, cook & laundry folding persons for my sister's family. With 1x3 year old boy & a 18 month old gal. I wont be needed after July when the kids go to school.
Keep the child in Australia please, get some help from family members if you have to. I can come over too, if you really need someone.
Just have to pay for my airticks, visa/work permit or watever. -
Just also to share.
I have a half sister who is 14 years old and is Thai.
Her mother isnt that keen for her only daughter to finish her tertiary education in Thailand because of drugs in school and teen pregnancies rampant in Thailand.
Her mother wants her to maybe come to Singapore to complete her studies and make something better for herself.
As our father is Singaporean. The choices are: Bring her to Singapore as a PR and pays more for her education.
Or for her to be declared Singaporean thru virture of her father's citizenship before she is 16 years old.
Singapore citizenship has certain values compared to some other country's.
But comparing Singapore to Australia. Singapore loses out. Especially for the TS case. -
Found this on http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1017.html
"Military or national service (NS) liable males who emigrated overseas before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, (e.g. applied for a Singapore Identity Card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11), will be allowed to renounce their Singapore citizenship if they do not wish to fulfil their NS obligations. They will be required to register for NS with Central Manpower Base and apply for deferment from full-time NS (NSF) until the age of 21, pending the renunciation of their Singapore citizenship. They can continue to make short social visits to Singapore and will not be required to serve NS if they renounced their citizenship at age 21."
So your child can be both Australian and Singaporean, but must decide by 21, and can defer NS until 21 if he does not live in Singapore past 11 years of age.
However, even if a child has dual nationality and resides in Singapore beyond 11, they must fulfill their NS obligation and then at 21, decide which citizenship they want -
Stick & stay in Aus.
You will never know what new stricter rules they gonna set up in the future to retain all males, so it's safer to stay in Aus. Ask your son what he wants when he grows older & understand the need to serve NS at the age of 18.
Give him a choice to choose. -
of course stay as aussie...