water_rat
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Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 408
Send Message 08 February 2005 · 06:29 PM
One of the First Utterances of the Buddha
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Delivered am I,
Rebirth is ended;
Fulfilled the Holy Life;
Done what was to be done;
There is no more of this state again.
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Through many a birth in existence wandered I,
Seeking,but not finding,the builder of this house.
Sorrowful is repeated births.
O housebuilder(craving),thou art seen.
Thou shalt build no house(Body) aagin.
All thy rafters(Passions) are broken.
Thy ridge-pole(Ignorance) is shattered.
Mind attains the unconditioned.
Achieved is the end of craving.
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Conversation with Upaka
The Buddha was travelling on the highway,
When between Gaya and the Bodhi tree,
beneath whose shade He attained Enlightenment,
A wandering ascetic named Upaka saw Him and addressed Him thus:
"Extremely clear are your senses,friend!
Pure and clean is your complexion.
On account of whom has your renunciation been made,friend?
Who is your Teacher?
Whose doctrine do you profess?"
The Buddha replied to Upaka:
"All have I overcome,all do I know.
From all am I detached,all have I renounced.
Wholly absorbed am I in the destruction of craving(Arahantship)
Having comprehended all by myself,
Whom shall I call my teacher?
No teacher have I.An equal to me there is not.
In the world including gods there is rival to me.
Indeed an Arahant am I in this world.
An unsurpassed teacher am I;
Alone am I the All-Enlightened.
Cool and appeased am I.
To establish the wheel of Dhamma to the city Kasi I go.
In the blind world I shall beat the drum of deathlessness."
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To be continue....
Would you sing a song for me of "WonDerin" !
wouldn't you :>
So..how abt Taoism An Enlightened one's Lao zi !
I thought only one Enlightened at a time in each cycles according to buddhism scripture!!! tats tickle my Wonders again
the Fact is Taoism and buddhism's teaching share
similarities...and tat tickle ???
An Eternal Now
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 849
Send Message 15 February 2005 · 05:52 PM
I support Lao Tzu's work on Tao Te Ching.
According to many great realised masters, Lao Tzu is called a Pratyekabuddhahood/Paccekabuddhahood through the Pratyekabuddhayana. A Pratyekabuddha means a solitarily enlightened person. Although he is enlightened he does not preach the dharma like Shakyamuni Buddha for 49 years, going throughout his country [India] to teach the truth, with thousands/tens of thousands of monks and nuns disciples. Buddha got enlightened by practising the path of Mahayana/Bodhisattvayana (an example of Bodhisattva [pu sa] we all know is Guan Yin). Lao Tzu wrote what he has realised in only 81 verses, but I think it is a great piece of work.
However modern Taoism is not only focusing on Lao Tzu's teachings [tao te ching] alone, but is heavily influenced by alchemist and worship of gods and deities. At worst, some of its components have degenerated into the "Gui-Shen realm" of practise. People who are too superstitious on certain aspect, will be reborned as a ghost in the next life because of their links & karma with those spirits during his life. This is not part of the Buddhist path, so that's the huge difference.
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An Eternal Now
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Send Message 15 February 2005 · 05:56 PM
Acording to Buddhism, there will be 1000 Buddhas appearing before the end of the Earth. Shakyamuni Buddha is the 4th. Maitreya will appear as Maitreya Buddha [Mi Le Fo] as the 5th Buddha a long time later. He has not come, but many cults stated he has already taken human form attained Buddhahood. In reality Maitreya Bodhisattva (not yet a Buddha) is currently residing in the Tus h i t a Heaven and teaching the truth to the gods (devas). I personally believe he also takes human form on Earth, like the Bu Dai Monk. But at the end of his life, he stated that in his humanly rebirths his identitity is not known and concealed to ordinary men. According to Buddhism the day when Maitreya Buddha attains Buddhahood is still a long time later, during a time which technology allows interstellar travel and lifespan is very long with virtually no diseases. Details can be found in the Buddhist sutra itself if you are interested.
However, a Pratyekabuddha is in a different path compared to Buddha, therefore he is not considered one of the 1000 Buddhas.
[This message was edited by An Eternal Now on 2005-02-15 18:12:41.]
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An Eternal Now
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Posts: 849
Send Message 22 February 2005 · 12:17 AM
quote:
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So..how abt taoism 'Tao' an Enlightened,Lao zi!!!
I thought only one Enlightened at a time in each cycles...
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While only one Buddha attains enlightenment per cycle,
Thousands of arhants attained nirvana during buddha's lifetime as his disciples. It is no surprise that there are pratyekabuddhas too, although rarer than the usual arhants. The Teaching Buddhas and the Pratyekabuddhas are considered higher than the usual arhants.
Note the time during which the Buddha said this. Probably he said this after his enlightenment when nobody has attained enlightenment yet, at his time. Lao Tzu belongs to a different country, he does not live in India.
Even today there are arhants, but probably not tens of thousands like it were in the past.
An Arhant means a Saint who has attained enlightenment, the Prajna wisdom frees himself from Samsara and the cycle of rebirth. He no longer suffers, and have destroyed the ten fetters:
(1) the belief in the existence of permanent self;
(2) doubt in the ability of the Triple Gem to lead him towards the goals;
(3) the mistaken belief that moral rules and ascetic rites alone are sufficient to lead a person to Enlightenment. (Silabbata Paramasa)
(4) attachment to sensual desire;
(5) ill will.
(6) desire for existence in the worlds of Form;
(7) desire for existence in the Formless Worlds;
( conceit;
(9) restlessness;
(10) ignorance.
Many arhants are also known to possess the 6 supernatural powers.
[This message was edited by An Eternal Now on 2005-02-22 00:24:05.]
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wisely_xu
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Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 216
Send Message 22 February 2005 · 09:48 PM
i need to point out certain issues.
Taoism base on the teachings of lao tze and uphold Tao Te Ching as the Bible. BUT it does not have this only 1 scripture. Taoism has thousand of scriptures written by Sages and immortals. Many of them, but ALL revolve around Tao Te Ching.
How can we know that? cos those who wrote these classics, are enlightened beings, such as Partirachs Wang chongyang, Qiu Changchun, Lu Dongbin, Zhang Sanfeng etc..
Some are heavenly divines, passing down these words personally.
Tao Te Ching does talk about deities and spirits. Worshipping many deities is NOT wrong in Taoism view and certainly still consider orthodox taoism.
We must see the meaning behind worshipping them.
Not that most taoist divines, heavenly ones, are ALL enlighthened. only certain lower ranked divines are not, but they still follow the way of heaven, way of tao.
Superstious come in only ppl have lack of proper knowledge on Taoism and thus add in these unwanted elements.
Taosim rituals and rites are NOT superstious too. It was the Yellow Emperor who advocate worshipping of heaven, and it was Celestial Master Zhang Daoling that teaches the ppl rituals and magic.
Rituals and magics are all about easing sufferings, REPENTENCE, blessings and accumulating of merits.
Achelmy etc..improve standard of living and indirectly assist ppl in learning the way of tao more convienently.
A healthy body promote and enchance a healthy and clear mind for cultivating.
Taoism has 3 treasures too, they are the Tao, Jing, and shi, namely the Tao (Lord of Primival aka Yuan shi tian zun), Jing, teachings, scriptures(Lord of Numinous Treasures aka lingbao tian zun) and lastly Shi, Spiritual teachers( Lord of Tao and virtue aka Daode tian zun, tai shang lao jun or lao tze)
NO rituals or worship in Taoism is complete without acknowledging the 3 treausres. The heavenly Jade Emperor was from the 3 treasures aka three pure ones too. Thus worshipping heaven, is equavilent to worshipping and paying homage to the three pure ones and jade emperor. both represent the ultimate Wuji and Taiji - the tao.
Life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what you going to get -- Forrest Gump
A journey to a thousand mile begins with the first step - Lao Tze
http://taoism.sgforums.com
An Eternal Now
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Posts: 849
Send Message 24 February 2005 · 09:31 PM
Well there's a difference between the era of Taoism we accept...
For my master, he does not accept the post-Zhang Tian Shi's Taoism. He says that Taoism has quite deviated after this era which I agree with his view... but ultimately I think its how we view Taoism, from which perspective... most modern [as in, living in the modern world] Taoists accept many more things which I personally don't.
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An Eternal Now
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 849
Send Message 24 February 2005 · 09:35 PM
The reason why I like some [earlier] Taoist scriptures is that they are pretty much in line with meditational insights of me and other buddhist practitioners.
So when I read Tao Te Ching, I will find similarities in there. It is quite an enlightening scripture.
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KK_J
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Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 47
Send Message 24 February 2005 · 11:35 PM
who belive in which religion is Yuan (fate) & Ye (deed)
Hope all religion believers will be able to accept each other, respect and love. Then this world can have longer, happy and peaceful life.
All religions teaches pple, Love & Compassionate and these 2 will lead us to many many good things.
byeZ
Kwa Simi Lunch??
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Wisely_xu
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Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 216
Send Message 25 February 2005 · 05:52 PM
the post-taoism(after Zhang tian shi)..many ppl think it is no good, and feel disgusted..but we really need to look into wat zhang want taoism to be..
he has his reasons for using and introducting magic and arts. Firstly is , taoism believes as it stated in the taoist canon, that the Supreme Lord reveal to zhang in sichuan, these arts.
Secondly he done alot for China and the chinese race. He practically uprooted those cults in sichuan provineces and introduce taoism. He stress on merits accumulating and repentence. This is good.
Wat we see now in SE Asia, taiwan is Zhang's taoism -the orthodox oneness sect(zheng yi) taoist sect.
Dun forget, we have the very much 'buddhist' one, the Quanzhen sect, which is not so 'magicial' like zhengyi. But hey, it is still a main branch in taoism.
Quanzhen taoism founded by Wang chongyang, followed closely to Tao Te Ching and even studied buddhism. Thus taoism is not totally about rites and rituals.
the reason why taoism encompass so many things, is its embracing nature. it embrace many things and willing to change, but of course not shaking its own roots and principle. so as to avoid conflicts and suit the majority.
the era taoism now, is very much like -folk taoism. it is influcencd by folk customs, but nevertheless, it is still taoism.
educated ppl like us, is strongly encourage to 'upgrade' oneself to stick to orthodox taoism belief of quanzhen OR Zhengyi. and this is wat the goal of the taoist community will like to achive.
Life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what you going to get -- Forrest Gump
A journey to a thousand mile begins with the first step - Lao Tze
http://taoism.sgforums.com
An Eternal Now
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Posts: 849
Send Message 25 February 2005 · 08:37 PM
I do hope Taoism is able to maintain and promote purity and orthodoxy
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water_rat
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Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 408
Send Message 26 February 2005 · 03:53 PM
quote:
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Originally posted by KK_J:
who belive in which religion is Yuan (fate) & Ye (deed)
Hope all religion believers will be able to accept each other, respect and love. Then this world can have longer, happy and peaceful life.
All religions teaches pple, Love & Compassionate and these 2 will lead us to many many good things.
byeZ
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Water_Rat wrote
Hope Soooo!!!
Would you sing a song for me of "WonDerin" !
wouldn't you :>
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water_rat
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 408
Send Message 01 March 2005 · 06:02 PM
Years ago,heard from a Wise Preacher that Buddha is de only 'Enlightened one' in this cycle as Only One Enligthen per cycle
Then speaking of ' Lao Zi 's Tao Te Ching, indeed 'An Enlightened one'.
Taoist's History is de oldest religion among all, even Buddhism.
Be Blessed...
Cheers for AlL...
[This message was edited by water_rat on 2005-03-06 17:48:35.]
Would you sing a song for me of "WonDerin" !
wouldn't you :>
An Eternal Now
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 849
Send Message 01 March 2005 · 08:38 PM
Depends on your definition.
Buddha is literally translated as "Enlightened One", it is true that there is only ONE Buddha per cycle.
But other than Buddhas there are Mahabodhisattvas, Pratyekabuddhas, Arhants, all these are also enlightened to the truth.
Lao Tzu came at about the same time as Buddha. Taoism started before Buddhism, just as Hinduism started before Buddha, but then the teachings of Buddha/Lao Tzu aren't there yet.
Some people would like to think that Buddhism is merely a Hindu sect, they try to absorb Buddhism to become part of Hinduism. In fact they almost did - but luckily just before they do that, Buddhism has moved out of India to other countries. Buddhist teachings have differences with Hinduism even though some of the concepts are similar.
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
Leading moderator in: ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
Be With Buddha!
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An Eternal Now
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Send Message 01 March 2005 · 08:47 PM
I've heard from a famous master that he is certain that Lao Tzu is the incarnation of Mahakashyapa, one of the top 10 listed disciples of Buddha, the Buddha's successor to Zen. [and also from other sources], Buddhist sutras have prophecised the coming of Lao Tzu [never state the name but gave info] to China to spread the teachings being the incarnation of Mahakashyapa, also in preperation for the coming of Buddhism. I do not know what sutra is that but there is such a thing. Of course not all Taoists can accept this. I do not believe that this is something to undermine Taoism... and neither do Buddhists look down on Taoists.
However, all these doesn't concern me. I'm just glad to be the follower of truth.
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
Leading moderator in: ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
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An Eternal Now
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 849
Send Message 01 March 2005 · 08:52 PM
In short,
Enlightened One = Definition of the word "Buddha"
enlightened [no caps] = can be anyone.
[This message was edited by An Eternal Now on 2005-03-01 20:54:08.]
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
Leading moderator in: ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
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An Eternal Now
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Posts: 849
Send Message 01 March 2005 · 08:47 PM
I've heard from a famous master that he is certain that Lao Tzu is the incarnation of Mahakashyapa, one of the top 10 listed disciples of Buddha, the Buddha's successor to Zen. [and also from other sources], Buddhist sutras have prophecised the coming of Lao Tzu [never state the name but gave info] to China to spread the teachings being the incarnation of Mahakashyapa, also in preperation for the coming of Buddhism. I do not know what sutra is that but there is such a thing. Of course not all Taoists can accept this. I do not believe that this is something to undermine Taoism... and neither do Buddhists look down on Taoists.
However, all these doesn't concern me. I'm just glad to be the follower of truth.
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
Leading moderator in: ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
Be With Buddha!
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An Eternal Now
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 849
Send Message 01 March 2005 · 08:52 PM
In short,
Enlightened One = Definition of the word "Buddha"
enlightened [no caps] = can be anyone.
[This message was edited by An Eternal Now on 2005-03-01 20:54:08.]
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
Leading moderator in: ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
Be With Buddha!
An Eternal Now
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Posts: 849
Send Message 04 March 2005 · 04:47 PM
Okie, let's see.
Firstly there are really lots of varying years on when Lao Tzu and Buddha was borned.
Some even say Buddha was borned 800 B.C. There is also arguments as to where Buddha was borned exactly. Some say Nepal, some say somewhere in India.
As for Lao Tzu incarnation, I don't really believe in the different incarnations . When Buddhadharma was almost absorbed to become part of Hinduism about 1000 years after Buddha entered parinirvana, the hindu priests explained that Buddha is one of the incarnations of Vishnu. In fact if memory serves, Buddha is supposedly the 9th of the 10th incarnation of Vishnu to come to Earth. This view is something true Buddhists cannot accept, because Buddha is not a samsaric being like the hindu deities.
Anyway, I think I will not go further into who is who's incarnation as we don't have the power to go back in time. These are personal beliefs.
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
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An Eternal Now
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Send Message 25 February 2005 · 08:37 PM
I do hope Taoism is able to maintain and promote purity and orthodoxy
Xabir took over this account on 15/10/2004.
Leading moderator in: ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
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