MLM observations
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oh and i've read e article...bt still, it has failed to prove anything.
firstly, you are under e implicit assumption that i have failed in mlm, as the article is directed towards pple of this strata. wrong. i have nt failed, neither have i succeeded. i left cos of the inherent flaws present in the system. But when i was still there, i guess i must have made quite abit for e company... my up-upline still calls me now and then, asking me when will i be back.
Also, i call into question the credibility of this article. this article is essentially written by a person who has succeeded in mlm. It is therefore a one-sided persective altogether and a rather limited source in that sense. i suggest you go read articles pointing out e flaws and fallacies to get a more balanced view.
This article cannot be taken into account because it is totally irrelevant and out of context. It talks abt mlm in e states. How many times have i reiterated that mlm is a good way to make money. When did i enunciate it was not?? But in e singaporean context, i'm afraid this is only but an unachievable dream for many, simply cos of our overwhelmingly small population. In china, the business is booming like crazy and e money keeps rolling in. Not so here in singapore -- only 2% of mlmers are making money, according to a recent straits times report.
Still, you have yet to address my concerns abt e moral aspects of e trade. MLM thrives by feeding on mutual friendship and trust as mlmers have no qualms abt capitalising on friendships without e least compunction. That's e last thing i would want to do in my whole entire existence as a human being. read my earlier posts in this forum.
Why show me this article?? i am just wasting my time reading it. This is totally irrelevant to me, addressing issues such as mlm being a loosely disguised pyramid. You can't just put up any website you like -- it has to apply to the case. Like all mlmers (especially those at the top), you seek to affirm e faith in e trade by talking abt mlm elsewhere.. but remember, its never about elsewhere, its Singapore that we are discussing here. -
It seems to me u think that networking means damaging relationships or even destroying it so dat's you are probably so against it. You see, dat's wat i call self-discovery becos u actually question yourself whethery the biz is morally wrong. That is wat most networkers shld do now and then. It means that at least networkers have a conscience after all. I understand dat it is probably your primary concern regarding feeding on relationships that has probably made u reconsider doin mlm as a viable way of earning money. But isn't dat the basis of all biz,even in your workplace? To me, mlm is a also a test of ur handling relationships which is why many ppl fail dat's y they fail to see the point of not pestering their families and friends. If u genuinely see, i mean genuinely, a product or service that is really beneficial to your friends why not tell them about it? Sure it's about making money in ur mind ur face can show but if u know that it's really good so ur passion for it is strong Im sure ur fren can tell rite? It's such a good thing that they reward u abt the good thing u told them so much so that it is a mutually beneficial thing. Ur true frens shld be the one supporting and believing in u and u shld not abuse their trust either. However if he doesn't see that it benefits him y bother to pester him? If ur opp or product or service is so gd then y have to pester unless the distributor himself cannot sincerely believe in the product or service and enjoy its benefits. The article itself may be in the context of America but is still related becos of its similar responses to mlm in America. U said it's a one-sided view? Maybe. But the writer is a US court-recognised expert and has written a book called "Inside Network Marketing" showin objectivity and he does lashes out at the way mlmers conduct their biz. The way mlmers put it is to shove down the throat of their friends the products or services or opp, whereby they may not need at all. That shld not be the way. That's sales. But being a true communicator shld be like a nurse listenin to ppl's needs and giving them what they want-that's networking, i believe.
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Devoid05, abt the part where u said that Singapore market is too small i would have to agree wif that. But dat does not mean u still cannot be successful at mlm in S'pore. y? Becos u do not have to be a superstar in mlm to be successful. According to my own experiences, some ppl merely wants to use the products or services to enjoy the discount benefits at distributor prices. Some wants to earn extra few hundred dollars a month to build their retirement nest egg. Some wants some pocket money. Finally some may want to earn the big income type as in 4-5 figure income type. Even if u are a superstar in mlm dat does not mean u are still financially-free becos the world is not perfect. As the chance of your company in peril is always there even though it can be as big as Amway. Amway can collapse as history has proven dat big corporations had collapsed b4. So we got to be realistic here. Some of us mlmers may feel dat a few hundred dollars per month is enough to achieving financial freedom. For example, if u accumulate a few hundred dollars a month without spending it from networking, after a few years you could buy some stocks and invest or you could jus save up for your retirement and invest in the bank and earn the interest rates. Isn't that a good and feasible way? And you do not need to have a huge network to earn a few hundred dollars rite?
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what kind of flawed and illogical argument are you putting forth? whose side are you on exactly?Originally posted by excused:It seems to me u think that networking means damaging relationships or even destroying it so dat's you are probably so against it. You see, dat's wat i call self-discovery becos u actually question yourself whethery the biz is morally wrong. That is wat most networkers shld do now and then. It means that at least networkers have a conscience after all. I understand dat it is probably your primary concern regarding feeding on relationships that has probably made u reconsider doin mlm as a viable way of earning money. But isn't dat the basis of all biz,even in your workplace? To me, mlm is a also a test of ur handling relationships which is why many ppl fail dat's y they fail to see the point of not pestering their families and friends. If u genuinely see, i mean genuinely, a product or service that is really beneficial to your friends why not tell them about it? Sure it's about making money in ur mind ur face can show but if u know that it's really good so ur passion for it is strong Im sure ur fren can tell rite? It's such a good thing that they reward u abt the good thing u told them so much so that it is a mutually beneficial thing. Ur true frens shld be the one supporting and believing in u and u shld not abuse their trust either. However if he doesn't see that it benefits him y bother to pester him? If ur opp or product or service is so gd then y have to pester unless the distributor himself cannot sincerely believe in the product or service and enjoy its benefits. The article itself may be in the context of America but is still related becos of its similar responses to mlm in America. .
firstly, you stated that my questioning abt the moral aspects of e business is self-discovery. do you really comprehend e true meaning of the word??? self-discovery means discovering something abt yourself you've never known before... When i started to question e moral aspects of e business, it does not mean that i have self-discovery... it simply means that i have e wisdom to discern whats right from wrong... and network marketeer's have demonstrated a severe lack of self-discovery, according to your definition of e word, as they have failed to question e flaws in e system. or izzt they simply refuse to look at it? You are contradicting yourself in this case. firstly you said that network marketing embarks one on e road to self-discovery. Next you said that discovering e moral flaws of e system is self-discovery... which isn't evident in many network marketeers, as they have gone from bad to worse, thus going against your first argument. what are you exactly driving at???
network marketing being a test of handling relationship? This argument sounds so good... but don't forget -- it just doesn't apply to mlm alone. Even in e workplace or in school, you face many hurdles in your relationships that you have to look for ways and means to overcome them. You say that network marketing is a test of handling relationships... i say it destroys relationships. see my earlier posts. Hw can one test out relationships by spending all day long in an mlm company and using friends as a money making tool? "destroy" would be a better word, although "test" sounds pleasing to e ears.
i didn't say that i did not believe in e product. I believed in it, and that's why i joined.
yeah... i believe you truly wanna benefit your friend cos your belief in e product is as staunch as a muslim's or a christian's belief in his or her faith. But above all, your primary motive is to garner as much points as possible so as to climb to e next rung of e mlm ladder. benefitting your friend is not unimportant, but it's secondary. I can't possibly coincide e aggressive behaviour of many network marketeer's here with the word benefit. Human beings are sensitive creatures, and whether you truly wanna benefit them, they can see for themselves.
My true friends should be e ones supporting me?? your definition of true friend, very much like your definition of self-discovery, is pretty screwed up. If that is what you make your true friend out to be, i believe you would expect your true friend to give you money to satisfy your cravings for drugs, shld you become a drug addict one day. Personally, i wouldn't want my friend to condone my misdeeds. When i first joined, many of my friends strongly advised me against it, citing various reasons. Despite their warnings, i still went ahead with it. It was only later upon attaining enlightenment that i realised how mlm had pricked my conscience, i quit without any hesistation. You know what they said? they went like "we are so happy for you... we were so worried about you all e time you were in that company..." that's what i mean by true friends, get the picture?
And you admitted that you haboured thoughts of "making money in your mind". see what i mean? By doing so, you are reducing your friends to no more than money-spinning machines. You very well knew that you were someone they could trust, therefore you sold e product to them, knowing full well they would find it hard to oblige. this is what i mean by capitalising on relationships. Never mind abt the benefitting part, as i have said... it's only secondary, something you consistently tell yourself just to ease your conscience.
And you said that if our friends didn't want to buy e product, we shld not force it down their throats. I fully agree with you, and as i have said... many network marketeers have adopted such a hardselling attitude, simply by refusing to take no for an answer. Why are you promulgating your values abt mlm here?? You shouldn't do that, because you will just reinforce the points which i made. can't you see the scenario which i am trying to paint? For network marketing to work, certain assumptions must hold, ceteris paribus. these assumptions include a wide market with majority of e population being receptive to mlm, companies being ethically run and mlmers having a correct attitude. But we know that in reality, all these assumptions do not hold water, esp in sg. And because of this, mlm has failed. So by promulgating your marketing ethnics, it only reminds us how doomed mlm is in sg, simply cos it has failed to meet these criteria.U said it's a one-sided view? Maybe. But the writer is a US court-recognised expert and has written a book called "Inside Network Marketing" showin objectivity and he does lashes out at the way mlmers conduct their biz.
So you agree with me that's its a one sided view... then stop defending e article... for heaven's sake... go get another negative article to get a more balanced view.The way mlmers put it is to shove down the throat of their friends the products or services or opp, whereby they may not need at all. That shld not be the way. That's sales. But being a true communicator shld be like a nurse listenin to ppl's needs and giving them what they want-that's networking
See what i mean?? you try to tell me what network marketeers should do and how they should behave. But that's not the point here. My point is that network marketeers CAN'T behave...not how SHOULD they behave. i am not here to set guidelines for their behaviours you know. You are supposed to refute my claim otherwise by proving that they are an ethical bunch. If they could conduct their business in such a proper and professional manner, i wouldn't have advised pple to stay away from e industry. Again, you are just enforcing e points which i have made.The article itself may be in the context of America but is still related becos of its similar responses to mlm in America.
it's not similar... Just because there were similar responses in America, you can't say that it is similar to singapore's case. Like i said, what works for USA may not work for singapore. This article is by all means, a totally irrelevant and biased one to me. It's cannot be applied to singapore. For one, this article adressess issues such as mlm being a loosely disguised pyramid...now now... where on earth did i say that it was?? And many more issues which are not pertaining to my reasons for being against this trade. So by simply posting the website, you are not answering my questions. You are just trying to throw a whole bunch of irrelevant answers in my face. Also, this article is irrelevant because the population size in sg cannot be compared to that of the states. You know very well that above all the preconditions for a thriving mlm business, one of them must include a large enough population to sustain the trade. mlm in singapore faces lots of constraints because of our small population, unlike the USA. And how do you dispute my claim that only 2% of mlmers are earning, according to a straits times report?? I believe that the proportion is much higher in the states for mlm to work. Moreover, e way companies are being run in e states are totally different from e ways companies in sg are being run. So how can that article be relevant??? In e first place, this article does not directly address my genuine concerns about the trade!However if he doesn't see that it benefits him y bother to pester him? If ur opp or product or service is so gd then y have to pester unless the distributor himself cannot sincerely believe in the product or service and enjoy its benefits.
Again, why are you narrating a whole chapter of marketing ethnics??? It is not i, but those in e trade, at whom e preaching should be directed at. -
again... this is just another huge chunk of information which only reinforces my claim...\Originally posted by excused:But dat does not mean u still cannot be successful at mlm in S'pore. y? Becos u do not have to be a superstar in mlm to be successful. According to my own experiences, some ppl merely wants to use the products or services to enjoy the discount benefits at distributor prices. Some wants to earn extra few hundred dollars a month to build their retirement nest egg.
wait... hold it... i'm not against pple who do mlm to use e products. In fact i applaud these pple for being so shrewd as they have taken advantage of the discounts. I just cannot comprehend the rationale behind launching into mlm as a full-time career... and doing all the recruitment and sales just to make money out of their friends.
when i said successful... it means owning a luxury car, having a stable and substantial income. Many network marketeers believe that mlm empowers them to get out of the rat race. Some even go to the extent of believing that they can retire early and feed off these earnings for the rest of their lives. But this is so untrue.
yeah... that's y i said MLM in sg can only be done as a sideline, NOT as a career. please read my posts again... But many pple tend to regard it as a career. By saying this, you are agreeing with my standpoint.
Did you fail your maths while in school?? can't you even do e simple calculations? Can earning a few hundred bucks a month bring financial freedom??? do you really know e meaning of financial freedom?? earning a few hundred dollars a month is insufficient to make ends meet, let alone pay for e car instalments and house loans, and yet many mlmers are treating it as a career... see what i mean?? wrong thinking.
[quote]Some wants some pocket money. Finally some may want to earn the big income type as in 4-5 figure income type. Even if u are a superstar in mlm dat does not mean u are still financially-free becos the world is not perfect. As the chance of your company in peril is always there even though it can be as big as Amway. Amway can collapse as history has proven dat big corporations had collapsed b4. So we got to be realistic here. Some of us mlmers may feel dat a few hundred dollars per month is enough to achieving financial freedom. For example, if u accumulate a few hundred dollars a month without spending it from networking, after a few years you could buy some stocks and invest or you could jus save up for your retirement and invest in the bank and earn the interest rates. Isn't that a good and feasible way? And you do not need to have a huge network to earn a few hundred dollars rite?
get this right. my stand is that mlm in sg can only be done as a sideline, not as a career... if it doesn't go against your conscience to do mlm therefore what you said only reinforces my claim. Something that can only bring you a few hundred bucks can only be done as a sideline, not as a career.
and whose side are you on again?? MOST MLM COMPANIES LURE PEOPLE WITH PROMISES OF FINANCIAL FREEDOM AND FIVE-FIGURE INCOMES... and now you, as part of them, are trying to tell pple that mlm does not bring financial freedom or five digit incomes... are you on my side or what?? So now you are agreeing with me that mlm does not promise financial freedom, according to the true definition of the word. By saying this, you are indirectly stating that mlm companies are unethical as they try to entice pple with the promise of financial freedom, knowing very well that they do not have the ability to fulfill that promise.
And you think that mlm can bring you a few hundred bucks?? no doubt abt that... but you've got to be dedicated, and the time and effort spent is simply not worth e few hundred bucks, not unless you are really that badly in need of the money. For me, i rather spent whatever spare time i have with my friends and families... it's more worthwhile than working your guts out for an mlm company. And how do you earn that hundred bucks? simply by coercing your relatives and friends into supporting you. So you absolutely have no qualms against it?
And buy stocks?? my oh my... do you know how much a share costs?? in this case, you have to save up at least few months of your income derived from your mlm business in order to play the stock market!! and chances are, out of ten stocks, nine are losing money... it's so dangerous to play with stocks and yet you are asking pple to play with it... -
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First and foremost I would like to make it clear that Im not on whose side or wat. I would like to be as objective as much as possible. My stand is that u can earn money from MLM as much as u want and as ethically and professionally as possible. It's true many has regarded MLM as a full time career, especially in sg. However this is not realistic. As an independent distributor u determine ur own income. Nobody is goin to pay u anything. So it's rather naive to go full time unless u have substantiate savings.
Let's start out by ur commenting on the moral values of the system. What's the definition of network marketing? It's recommending a product or service or opp that u believe in to someone u care abt. Is there anything immoral here? Yes and no. U can believe in drugs and asking ur frens to take it. U can believe in scams and con ur frens or relatives. But will u? On the other hand u can believe in a great product or service that can help ur frens and refer it them and earn a referal fee. After they find the product is gd u can ask if they are interested in the biz. Is there a tinge of immorality here, not to mention they are earnin all the discounts? I dun think so. Yes it's true that we want to earn money. Consider this: If ur fren sets up a biz and u are asked to help after a few mths will u take his money? Will u say I dun want to make ur money even though u put in effort? If u open a shop will u want to give everything to ur frens for free? In mlm as distributors if ur fren wants to get a product will u pay for him? We are all earning money frm one another. My fren it's not a matter of making money frm him, it's a matter of the u gettin a reward for providin a value of service for him and he gettin the benefits. As a true fren as u shld be, u shld oso be concerned abt his well-being after usin the products or services. This is being mutually beneficial. I guess as singaporeans in a conservative society, we care too much abt our face abt making frens' money or wat. And if he doesnt want it let it be. And who says we have to make money frm frens? There are other ways to find ppl who are interested. And as a mlmer our job is to teach leadership skills to ppl who in turn teach their own grps. It's learning abt how to fish, not being given the fish.
If u see ur frens as tools for making money they can tell as u said, humans are sensitive and intelligent beings. Your stint with mlm seems to be giving u a bad impression that many equates all mlmers want money frm frens. Y networking allows u to handle relationships better is because u get to learn to connect with ppl and understand their problems. Have u ever heard ppl saying "U understand me?" Communication is a subject worth studying. That's important in networking and especially so in mlm. Sure many may not buy or join u but u get to learn new things abt ppl and urself. Isn't that better?
Yes ur true frens are those who would advise u to stay away frm unethical companies and distributors but not those ethical ones. The way u put it is not fair for the good and honest sheep. True frens shld believe in the product or service or biz that u believe in and support u. They may not join or buy but still wish u the best in ur endeavours whole-heartedly. MLM does work for sg. As for the 2 % report it's not really accurate. Many ppl have, as i have said starts to put network marketing as another side income b4 realising that it can help them earn a substantial monthly income b4 launching into full time. And many ppl have varying definitions of levels of success in mlm. Different levels of desires as i have stated in my previous posts. But all have a chance to reach the highest pay ranks in the company.
Who says that earnin a few hundred dollars is not enough to have financial freedom? Again it depends on the particular person's needs. I have seen ppl who are strugglin to make ends meet. A few hundred dollars extra to them is like a saviour. There are some who scrimp and wouldnt even spend a few hundred dollars while others suffer becos of shortage of some money. MLM a few hundred dollars a month is better than working for job part time and withstanding the face of others. Subtract all the negativity and have nothing left. Also mlm gives u flexibility to earn that extra few hundred dollars part time anytime u want as u see fit and with the possibility of earning even more.
Why stocks? Im not here to tell ppl to speculate but to learn abt investing. Skills that will make u financially knowledgeable besides network marketing.
My point is this network marketing can be done in sg ethically sideline or full time. Full timers shld be aware of dire conseqences if they jus plunge straight in. And it can be a hugely rewarding experience. Im not here to side with anyone just to point out the facts. Let mlm in sg withstand the test of time and let time be its witness.[/quote] -
Originally posted by excused:
sigh...as i have said thrice over... the main purpose of many mlmers is not to benefit friends. the main purpose is money, and money is the source that drives the hearts and souls of you guys. If you really wanted to benefit your friends, then for heaven's sake, forgo whatever commission you are entitled to absorb from your downlines and customers. only then can you genuinely say that you truly have the intention to benefit your friends. As i have said and i shall repeat myself again... you are just using the excuse of benefitting people to make yourselves feel better, as this has the effect of easing the smeared conscience of you guys.
[quote]Let's start out by ur commenting on the moral values of the system. What's the definition of network marketing? It's recommending a product or service or opp that u believe in to someone u care abt. Is there anything immoral here? Yes and no.U can believe in drugs and asking ur frens to take it. U can believe in scams and con ur frens or relatives. But will u? On the other hand u can believe in a great product or service that can help ur frens and refer it them and earn a referal fee. After they find the product is gd u can ask if they are interested in the biz. Is there a tinge of immorality here, not to mention they are earnin all the discounts? I dun think so. Yes it's true that we want to earn money. Consider this: If ur fren sets up a biz and u are asked to help after a few mths will u take his money?
my answer is a definite NO.... common' i don't believe in taking my friends' money. Then you are not helping your friend anymore... its more like a case of mutual benefit. IMagine a world where after receiving such great help from someone, your friend stretches out a hand for a referral fee. it hurts huh?? mlm just makes it sound like a good idea... but bullshit... it was never a good idea right from e start and it never will be. If i help my friend, i jolly well help him to the best of my ability without receiving any benefits from him.Will u say I dun want to make ur money even though u put in effort?
i wouldn't want the money as the joy and the satisfaction i derive from helping a friend is something that money can't buy. Your morals are screwed up man... u ought to do some reflection. Why are you so calculative?? It's precisely cos you have put in so much effort in helping someone, you derive even more joy from it. Haven't you heard of the saying "its more blessed to give than to receive"? That's what i mean when i say mlm has redefined and shaped a person's values in a negative sense. The word "help" no longer holds any meaning anymore, simply cos i'm expected to give the person a fair share of monetary benefits for the help he has rendered to me!!If u open a shop will u want to give everything to ur frens for free?
i wouldn't wanna give everything to my friends for free in this case cos i'm doing a business... But how i hate the idea of a doing a business that thrives on e trust and friendship between two parties. If i open a shop, i will not be capitalising on any friendships or family relations. Bulk of my customers will be the general public... however, in mlm you can't possibly sell it to total strangers!!In mlm as distributors if ur fren wants to get a product will u pay for him? We are all earning money frm one another. My fren it's not a matter of making money frm him, it's a matter of the u gettin a reward for providin a value of service for him and he gettin the benefits. As a true fren as u shld be, u shld oso be concerned abt his well-being after usin the products or services. This is being mutually beneficial. I guess as singaporeans in a conservative society, we care too much abt our face abt making frens' money or wat.
again... this sounds so good and yet sucks so bad. As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be better if you had provided your friend e service for free??? If you truly poccessed the intention to benefit him, you would have done it for free. If not, you are just capitalising on relationships, simple as that. As long as you are reaping a share of profits from your friends, your friends are no more than your money-making tools. And i'm not the least happy with the way mlmers conduct their business over here. The mindset you just mentioned is evidently lacking in many of them. They go to the extent of pestering their friends relentlessly, till their friends feel so harassed, telling them that they are doing all this for the "benefit of their friends"... see the irony??And if he doesnt want it let it be. And who says we have to make money frm frens? There are other ways to find ppl who are interested. And as a mlmer our job is to teach leadership skills to ppl who in turn teach their own grps. It's learning abt how to fish, not being given the fish.
yeah... teach leadership skills... how on earth do you get such a golden opportunity?? by rising to the top of the ladder of course. and how do you do that?? again, by capitalising on friendships. duh... it all boils down to square number one. You can't possibly sell a product to a total stranger... i mean with all e intense competition from established pharmacies like guardian, many of us would just perfer a walk-in.If u see ur frens as tools for making money they can tell as u said, humans are sensitive and intelligent beings. Your stint with mlm seems to be giving u a bad impression that many equates all mlmers want money frm frens. Y networking allows u to handle relationships better is because u get to learn to connect with ppl and understand their problems. Have u ever heard ppl saying "U understand me?" Communication is a subject worth studying. That's important in networking and especially so in mlm. Sure many may not buy or join u but u get to learn new things abt ppl and urself. Isn't that better?
communication is the key of life... this is so very true... but you are quite slow aren't you??? you mean throughout your existence on this earth for ten years and more, you have never learnt how to communicate with pple??? Nor as a friend, you've never tried to understand the problems and difficulties your counterparts are going through? you really blow me off. when you were in school, didn't you learn how to connect with pple? And frankly, i don't see how mlmers can connect with pple. they are a pretty hated bunch... spending all their time in their companies. Why, the only pple they ever connect on a personal basis would be their fellow network marketeers themselves! in fact, they should get out of their shell -- the only world that revolves around them is e world of mlm. What do they know other than mlm and business? i've seen so many mlmers who are no better than stay-at-home mums and housewives, they know nothing about the world! Their definitions of life are all the same and just as shallow - to make money, more money and even more money.
MOreover, Isn't that so true for every job?? you learn how to communicate in every job that you undertake in e coporate world.Yes ur true frens are those who would advise u to stay away frm unethical companies and distributors but not those ethical ones. The way u put it is not fair for the good and honest sheep. True frens shld believe in the product or service or biz that u believe in and support u. They may not join or buy but still wish u the best in ur endeavours whole-heartedly.
i wouldn't want such friends. if they just believe in whatever you believe in, it will merely be a case of the blind leading the blind. Friends are supposed to uphold you and enlighten you with their unique views and perspectives. Again, you seriously need to reevaluate your definition of friendship.
The problem with the local network marketing scene is that majority of mlm companies are found to be unethical and their reputations, severely tarnished. The reputation of the industry is so smeared that out of 100 companies you join, chances are almost everyone of them have blemished records, with the exception of one or two. It's highly impossibly to differentiate the good and the bad ones as they have been all identified under a single banner of mlm.MLM does work for sg. As for the 2 % report it's not really accurate.
Not accurate?? If only you would open your eyes to see, you would find that majority of your colleagues are facing problems getting downlines and all that stuff. Not accurate?? hello, this is from the straits times, mind you. are you implying that a reputable paper like theirs would conjure up facts and figures without any substantial evidence? If that is so, why aren't they sued for defamatory? Not unless the top pple in mlm are well aware of it themselves. ON what basis are you making such a statement?? where are your facts to prove otherwise? Even other networkers in this forum agree with this point! And aft so many months of doing business, haven't you realise that the sheer magnitude of the customer base is just so crucial to its success?? Sg's population is so small and with such intense rivalry among companies, you are saying that more than 2% are earning? that's being a little too idealistic huh? It does work for 2% of them, but definitely not for the majority.Many ppl have, as i have said starts to put network marketing as another side income b4 realising that it can help them earn a substantial monthly income b4 launching into full time. And many ppl have varying definitions of levels of success in mlm. Different levels of desires as i have stated in my previous posts. But all have a chance to reach the highest pay ranks in the company.
That's very foolish of them sin't it... as i have said the consequences are only too conceivable -- they end up quitting their jobs. When they find that they are unable to make the kind of money they previously earned, huge debts start to mount and before you know it, the bank is hot at their heels...
earn a substantial income??? again, 98% of mlmers are not earning! it's so true! if you have done a random survey... you would have many pple telling you that mlm cannot give you a substantial income.
[b]Who says that earnin a few hundred dollars is not enough to have financial freedom? Again it depends on the particular person's needs. I have seen ppl who are strugglin to make ends meet. A few hundred dollars extra to them is like a saviour. There are some who scrimp and wouldnt even spend a few hundred dollars while others suffer becos of shortage of some money. MLM a few hundred dollars a month is better than working for job part time and withstanding the face of others. Subtract all the negativity and have nothing left. Also mlm gives u flexibility to earn that extra few hundred dollars part time anytime u want as u see fit and with the possibility of earning even more.
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ok...point taken... but unless i'm so hard up for money, i wouldn't want to feed off friendships.Why stocks? Im not here to tell ppl to speculate but to learn abt investing. Skills that will make u financially knowledgeable besides network marketing.
In your previous posts, you said that pple shld use their income to buy stocks... log on to www.poems.com.sg when trading starts... i tell you... you'll see for yourself majority of shares are losing money, if you ever know how to read e tables. It's stupid to dabble in shares and here you are telling pple to play with the stock market... have you any realization what this may lead to?? and please, all these skills abt investing are so self-explanatory, i believe that even if you do not tell them, pple would have done that long ago.My point is this network marketing can be done in sg ethically sideline or full time. Full timers shld be aware of dire conseqences if they jus plunge straight in. And it can be a hugely rewarding experience. Im not here to side with anyone just to point out the facts. Let mlm in sg withstand the test of time and let time be its witness.
the Point here is that mlm in sg has been around for ten years and despite this, it has nothing to show for itself. What can we conclude from all this? companies have folded up one after another, mlmers have not changed their attitudes...
And mlm cannot be done as a full time. okok...so your statement applies to the selected 2%, but what about the remaining 98%? Do not attempt to bring them to any further harm by telling them that they can launch into it full-scale when they are not even seeing the money! and the idea about you making money out of your friends is certainly never rewarding?? why not find a coporate job?? its just as rewarding!!! -
Originally posted by devoid05:
now you guys know why i dont bother to talk to devoid05 over the forum? when devoid05 is out there to prove his point right, no matter how hard you try to explain your point, devoid05 will definitely counter back again. this is endless....
again... this is just another huge chunk of information which only reinforces my claim...\
get this right. [b]my stand is that mlm in sg can only be done as a sideline, not as a career... if it doesn't go against your conscience to do mlm therefore what you said only reinforces my claim. Something that can only bring you a few hundred bucks can only be done as a sideline, not as a career.
and whose side are you on again?? MOST MLM COMPANIES LURE PEOPLE WITH PROMISES OF FINANCIAL FREEDOM AND FIVE-FIGURE INCOMES... and now you, as part of them, are trying to tell pple that mlm does not bring financial freedom or five digit incomes... are you on my side or what?? So now you are agreeing with me that mlm does not promise financial freedom, according to the true definition of the word. By saying this, you are indirectly stating that mlm companies are unethical as they try to entice pple with the promise of financial freedom, knowing very well that they do not have the ability to fulfill that promise.
And you think that mlm can bring you a few hundred bucks?? no doubt abt that... but you've got to be dedicated, and the time and effort spent is simply not worth e few hundred bucks, not unless you are really that badly in need of the money. For me, i rather spent whatever spare time i have with my friends and families... it's more worthwhile than working your guts out for an mlm company. And how do you earn that hundred bucks? simply by coercing your relatives and friends into supporting you. So you absolutely have no qualms against it?
And buy stocks?? my oh my... do you know how much a share costs?? in this case, you have to save up at least few months of your income derived from your mlm business in order to play the stock market!! and chances are, out of ten stocks, nine are losing money... it's so dangerous to play with stocks and yet you are asking pple to play with it...[/b]
by the way, if devoid05 want to think that why.. let him be. anyway he is too insignificant to change anything.
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you cant even hurt me.. why i need to defend myself?
waste my time.
if you cant stand the way i say, then dont reply lor. -
see e whole point... it's precisely cos your arguments are not sound that's y i have to counter and counter and counter... because your arguments contain too many loopholes... if your arguments were sound, i would have accepted them without question.
and what counter argument did i do unto you, BMW? in e first place, you were unable to provide any substantial arguments, backed out by solid facts... so what counter argument do i need to do? of so many mlmers in e forum,... you do pale in comparison. All i asked is just one point from you... and you can't even give me a simple evidence. what kind of education does your company provide you? you are a disgrace to mlmers. Remember, its never abt defending yourself. it's abt defending e industry, must i teach you everything? -
Once again devoid 05 u strike me as someone who's really anti mlm. Possibly due to some bad experiences of some kind for watsoever reasons. True network marketing companies provide real quality goods at reasonable prices. It is not dat mlmers are money minded, some jus like the way it gives them the financial relief for the month. MLM is a biz itself and and it is naive that u think u r making money from ur frens. Biz is biz. U r doin a biz with them. And never lie to them it's destroying the relationship anyway. U will also feel guilty. And u r offering them an avenue to make money or quality products to improve their lives. Yes to be honest we have to make sure our downlines earn money b4 we earn money. U got to motivate them, encourage them, give them more self confidence, let them break out of their comfort zone. When u see dat they earn more than u do, u actually feel happy for them. Yes its true dat Singapore market is small but if u are smart u can still break out of the sg market to do mlm. There are many ways. Use ur creative juices. Let the true real ethical ones prove themselves. Whether u like or not, mlm is here. It is the reality. It will revolutionise the way things are being distributed. Ppl no longer trust advertising anymore. Do u?
Citicorp has retrenched its employees and replaced it wif independent distributors. So is another aspect of IBM. Many like Coca-cola, Toyota and others. Companies will still use traditional marketing efforts but they realise it is getting less effective. Thus resorting to mlm. Word of mouth is powerful. The fact that an NUS report has advocated MLM shows that it is a marketing strategy worth studying. There's even an ex-harvard professor who teaches mlm in the University of Illinois in the USA. There's nothing u can really do to stop its growth. It is a growing to a world phenomenon slowly but surely. And I never advise ppl to take it full time in the first place. So educate your frens abt this. It's never abt earnin their money. -
whahaha.. please dont put up such a noble front. should i let everyone know that you are begging me to delete all my post because it may make you look childish? for your info, i still have all your private messages with me.Originally posted by devoid05:see e whole point... it's precisely cos your arguments are not sound that's y i have to counter and counter and counter... because your arguments contain too many loopholes... if your arguments were sound, i would have accepted them without question.
and what counter argument did i do unto you, BMW? in e first place, you were unable to provide any substantial arguments, backed out by solid facts... so what counter argument do i need to do? of so many mlmers in e forum,... you do pale in comparison. All i asked is just one point from you... and you can't even give me a simple evidence. what kind of education does your company provide you? you are a disgrace to mlmers. Remember, its never abt defending yourself. it's abt defending e industry, must i teach you everything?
sorry that i have to reject you even though you tried to persuade me to talk over phone... i only communicate face to face. if you are scared, then bring all your 'gangs' to assist you. the more people the merrier, then i wont spend so much time repeating and repeating again. -
let us just cast aside the fact that i am anti-mlm... you don't have to try to sound sympathetic because i've gotten over my experience and i've nothing personal against the system, very much contrary what you've perceived. Rather i am assessing the system from a non-partisan, rational perspective. If you choose to view me in that light, likewise, i can choose to see you in the same manner, as someone who is brainwashed by the company and a meaningful discussion won't be able to take place.Originally posted by excused:Once again devoid 05 u strike me as someone who's really anti mlm. Possibly due to some bad experiences of some kind for watsoever reasons. True network marketing companies provide real quality goods at reasonable prices. It is not dat mlmers are money minded, some jus like the way it gives them the financial relief for the month. MLM is a biz itself and and it is naive that u think u r making money from ur frens. Biz is biz. U r doin a biz with them. And never lie to them it's destroying the relationship anyway. U will also feel guilty. And u r offering them an avenue to make money or quality products to improve their lives. Yes to be honest we have to make sure our downlines earn money b4 we earn money. U got to motivate them, encourage them, give them more self confidence, let them break out of their comfort zone. When u see dat they earn more than u do, u actually feel happy for them. Yes its true dat Singapore market is small but if u are smart u can still break out of the sg market to do mlm. There are many ways. Use ur creative juices. Let the true real ethical ones prove themselves. Whether u like or not, mlm is here. It is the reality. It will revolutionise the way things are being distributed. Ppl no longer trust advertising anymore. Do u?
Citicorp has retrenched its employees and replaced it wif independent distributors. So is another aspect of IBM. Many like Coca-cola, Toyota and others. Companies will still use traditional marketing efforts but they realise it is getting less effective. Thus resorting to mlm. Word of mouth is powerful. The fact that an NUS report has advocated MLM shows that it is a marketing strategy worth studying. There's even an ex-harvard professor who teaches mlm in the University of Illinois in the USA. There's nothing u can really do to stop its growth. It is a growing to a world phenomenon slowly but surely. And I never advise ppl to take it full time in the first place. So educate your frens abt this. It's never abt earnin their money.
reasonable prices?? dude, you really need to get out of your nutshell and look around. why, a nexus shampoo which is just as good costs half the price of a herbalife shampoo! and i'm saying so cos i've used both products. there are so many health products in the market which are just as effective if not cheaper, than products marketed through the mlm way. this is what i call capitalising - selling products to your acquaintances and loved ones alike at exorbitant prices, not to mention that they can be easily substituted by other health supplements in the market.
again?? why are you extolling your values on mlm?? as i have said, you are just meditating on these values as they have the thereupatic effect of easing your conscience and making you feel better. the question is not how mlms should do it, but whether they have applied all these talk into their practices. It is precisely cos they don't practice what they preach, that we see many pple falling prey to such companies. i do appreciate your sincerity in promulgating these values on the forum, however, as they serve as a concious and apt reminder for mlmers not to breach the boundaries.
you said that if we are smart we can break out of the sg market and do mlm. i say that if i am smart i will find other avenues more in line with the population constraints. which sounds more practical and logical?
And all these talk abt doing business with friends are just excuses validated by the top pple in the trade to make the system seem more justifiable and acceptable in the eyes of pple like you. Just ask yourself honestly ; have i ever thought of making money out of my friends? if you can safely say no, then you have the green light. but i you reply otherwise, then perhaps you ought to reconsider your money-making options. Also examine the lengths to which you have gone to pull your friends into the trade. This may tell you a thing or two about your underlying motives.
Just as i am filled with cynicism for advertisements, why, i don't trust mlmers either... i mean who can? Just like advertisements, you guys go to the extent of dramatising the benefits your products bring in your efforts to boost your sales figures...how do you expect the general public to trust you guys... and i do not consider mlm a revolutionary concept... mlm is nothing more than a disguised version of a salesperson, save for the recruitment part. after all, you guys go knocking from door to door, rather than relying on walk-ins.
word of mouth is powerful... not when the person has a vested interest in the product. read the article in the straits times about doctors doing mlm? the doctors association has given it a no-no...why? because pple are unable to trust these doctors, despite their expertise in the medical field, that they will give sound advice without compromising on their personal agendas.
citicorp, IBM and coca cola toyota jumping in on the mlm bandwagon?? where are your sources to prove your claim? to the extent on my knowledge, the powerful business models that were crucial in shaping the successes of these conglomerates were never in line with any mlm stance. Even if they were to replace staff with indpt distributors, it doesn't imply they have turned mlm, simply because they don't go around appealing to closed ones to buy the products, rather, they rely on walk-ins -- people with the intention to buy the products. this is good, in this way, services are more personalised, without the possibility of capitalising on relationships.
NUS has advocated the study of MLM as an emerging trend in the market... NUS has not advocated MLM. There's a difference between the former and the latter. It is a well-known fact that various universities all around the world have included such a topic in their diversed curriculums, as it is a business model worth studying. Many of my friends who have studied the MLM business model have watched the MLM video more than 5 times, and its precisely owing to the fact that they have done such concise and detailed analysis of the system that they have seen through its inherent flaws and moral failings and told me about it. In fact, one local university recently invited a successful singaporean entrepreneur to give a talk, and in it he said he would not even consider MLM a viable business nor a career...
i don't care even if an ex-harvard professor comes to me and tells me how good MLM is. it doesn't prove anything, really. i have friends who are currently pursuing degrees in london school of economics, cornell and stanford... and many of them are just as against the system, whatever their reasons. For its not about who backs up the system -- its about us assessing the system in an unbiased manner and trusting in the logic of our assessments. in the first place... i have never questioned the system... i have only questioned the way pple have mishandled it and the likelihood of the system being exposed to all kinds of scammers. can this system really work in our very flawed world where man is greedy by nature?
mlm is growing... but many pple are just not seeing the money. whether mlm will make its presence felt 50 years down the road is yet another thing. i am not trying to curb its growth... in fact, i have become accustomed to its existence, however against it i may be. I have sort of resigned to fate that MLM will always be a business model used by some companies, and MLM will not cease to exist as long as we humans do. I very pretty much admit that i am powerless to do anything about it... but i can't just sit back and watch people suffer in the system right?
ask yourself are majority of your downlines seeing the money? what is your advice to them?? to quit or to persevere and continue to suffer. If you mean them well, tell them to quit.
perhaps you are blinded by the conviction that MLM in sg is bound to succeed... without hope or agenda, i would like to give you a piece of advice: why don't you spend perhaps a day or two to think about the trade. List down its flaws and its fallacies as well as the benefits it brings. Do some research in the library and over the net to aide in your listing. in this way you get a more balanced view of the pros and the cons of the system. be true to yourself... asked yourself whether it has gone against your conscience. NO point me arguing with you over the system if its not going to result in any action being taken...
It may be a sweet fulfillment to see plans develop, that's y you refuse to give them up, no matter how you know that deep down inside, you still have a fair share of doubts. If you are prepared to look at the negative side of things... you will find that many things in mlm are not what they seem to you. good luck to you, dude. -
whahaha... what you said really wanna make me laugh. i feel like correcting your wrong thinking but then... whats the point? hmmm... maybe i'm too lazy to correct every single line you typed or simply 'playing music to a deaf cow' is a waste of time.Originally posted by devoid05:let us just cast aside the fact that i am anti-mlm... you don't have to try to sound sympathetic because i've gotten over my experience and i've nothing personal against the system, very much contrary what you've perceived. Rather i am assessing the system from a non-partisan, rational perspective. If you choose to view me in that light, likewise, i can choose to see you in the same manner, as someone who is brainwashed by the company and a meaningful discussion won't be able to take place.
reasonable prices?? dude, you really need to get out of your nutshell and look around. why, a nexus shampoo which is just as good costs half the price of a herbalife shampoo! and i'm saying so cos i've used both products. there are so many health products in the market which are just as effective if not cheaper, than products marketed through the mlm way. this is what i call capitalising - selling products to your acquaintances and loved ones alike at exorbitant prices, not to mention that they can be easily substituted by other health supplements in the market.
again?? why are you extolling your values on mlm?? as i have said, you are just meditating on these values as they have the thereupatic effect of easing your conscience and making you feel better. the question is not how mlms should do it, but whether they have applied all these talk into their practices. It is precisely cos they don't practice what they preach, that we see many pple falling prey to such companies. i do appreciate your sincerity in promulgating these values on the forum, however, as they serve as a concious and apt reminder for mlmers not to breach the boundaries.
you said that if we are smart we can break out of the sg market and do mlm. i say that if i am smart i will find other avenues more in line with the population constraints. which sounds more practical and logical?
And all these talk abt doing business with friends are just excuses validated by the top pple in the trade to make the system seem more justifiable and acceptable in the eyes of pple like you. Just ask yourself honestly ; have i ever thought of making money out of my friends? if you can safely say no, then you have the green light. but i you reply otherwise, then perhaps you ought to reconsider your money-making options. Also examine the lengths to which you have gone to pull your friends into the trade. This may tell you a thing or two about your underlying motives.
Just as i am filled with cynicism for advertisements, why, i don't trust mlmers either... i mean who can? Just like advertisements, you guys go to the extent of dramatising the benefits your products bring in your efforts to boost your sales figures...how do you expect the general public to trust you guys... and i do not consider mlm a revolutionary concept... mlm is nothing more than a disguised version of a salesperson, save for the recruitment part. after all, you guys go knocking from door to door, rather than relying on walk-ins.
word of mouth is powerful... not when the person has a vested interest in the product. read the article in the straits times about doctors doing mlm? the doctors association has given it a no-no...why? because pple are unable to trust these doctors, despite their expertise in the medical field, that they will give sound advice without compromising on their personal agendas.
citicorp, IBM and coca cola toyota jumping in on the mlm bandwagon?? where are your sources to prove your claim? to the extent on my knowledge, the powerful business models that were crucial in shaping the successes of these conglomerates were never in line with any mlm stance. Even if they were to replace staff with indpt distributors, it doesn't imply they have turned mlm, simply because they don't go around appealing to closed ones to buy the products, rather, they rely on walk-ins -- people with the intention to buy the products. this is good, in this way, services are more personalised, without the possibility of capitalising on relationships.
NUS has advocated the study of MLM as an emerging trend in the market... NUS has not advocated MLM. There's a difference between the former and the latter. It is a well-known fact that various universities all around the world have included such a topic in their diversed curriculums, as it is a business model worth studying. Many of my friends who have studied the MLM business model have watched the MLM video more than 5 times, and its precisely owing to the fact that they have done such concise and detailed analysis of the system that they have seen through its inherent flaws and moral failings and told me about it. In fact, one local university recently invited a successful singaporean entrepreneur to give a talk, and in it he said he would not even consider MLM a viable business nor a career...
i don't care even if an ex-harvard professor comes to me and tells me how good MLM is. it doesn't prove anything, really. i have friends who are currently pursuing degrees in london school of economics, cornell and stanford... and many of them are just as against the system, whatever their reasons. For its not about who backs up the system -- its about us assessing the system in an unbiased manner and trusting in the logic of our assessments. in the first place... i have never questioned the system... i have only questioned the way pple have mishandled it and the likelihood of the system being exposed to all kinds of scammers. can this system really work in our very flawed world where man is greedy by nature?
mlm is growing... but many pple are just not seeing the money. whether mlm will make its presence felt 50 years down the road is yet another thing. i am not trying to curb its growth... in fact, i have become accustomed to its existence, however against it i may be. I have sort of resigned to fate that MLM will always be a business model used by some companies, and MLM will not cease to exist as long as we humans do. I very pretty much admit that i am powerless to do anything about it... but i can't just sit back and watch people suffer in the system right?
ask yourself are majority of your downlines seeing the money? what is your advice to them?? to quit or to persevere and continue to suffer. If you mean them well, tell them to quit.
perhaps you are blinded by the conviction that MLM in sg is bound to succeed... without hope or agenda, i would like to give you a piece of advice: why don't you spend perhaps a day or two to think about the trade. List down its flaws and its fallacies as well as the benefits it brings. Do some research in the library and over the net to aide in your listing. in this way you get a more balanced view of the pros and the cons of the system. be true to yourself... asked yourself whether it has gone against your conscience. NO point me arguing with you over the system if its not going to result in any action being taken...
It may be a sweet fulfillment to see plans develop, that's y you refuse to give them up, no matter how you know that deep down inside, you still have a fair share of doubts. If you are prepared to look at the negative side of things... you will find that many things in mlm are not what they seem to you. good luck to you, dude.
i simply dont understand why some people only like to express themselves in front of a dead screen? then.. what is mouth meant for? eating only? -
from all your posts... my hunch is that you nv ever gonna make it in this trade... you are earning less than 1 thousand a month?? i must be right.Originally posted by I love BMW:whahaha... what you said really wanna make me laugh. i feel like correcting your wrong thinking but then... whats the point? hmmm... maybe i'm too lazy to correct every single line you typed or simply 'playing music to a deaf cow' is a waste of time.
i simply dont understand why some people only like to express themselves in front of a dead screen? then.. what is mouth meant for? eating only?
good luck to you... oh yar... and when you get your BMW, do tell us k...
instead of putting forth your points with substantial claims, you resort to flaming... if you don't have points, just say so... only pple without any substance and points will resort to flaming via e forum... and from what i see in other forums in other threads you posted to other pple, you are just someone very shallow in your thinking...
you better go do mlm... a person of your calibre is least likely to succeed in e coporate world...so mlm will be a better alternative for you. my guess is that you do not have a high education level too, as pple with a good education will not talk like you do. -
I think there is no point in arguing over mlm anymore. The result will be endless and still lead to nowhere. Anti mlm ppl will find all sorts of reasons to tell ppl not to do mlm. Mlmers of course will do otherwise. The fact is mlm is already here. And I still firmly believe in certain mlm's products and opportunity becos it has worked to improve my family's lives as well as others. Still let us continue with our endeavours. Episode ended.
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whahhaa.... as what i said.. someone who dont know alot but yet act like know alot and still can make so much assumption and theory to satisfy his self-pity needs.Originally posted by devoid05:from all your posts... my hunch is that you nv ever gonna make it in this trade... you are earning less than 1 thousand a month?? i must be right.
good luck to you... oh yar... and when you get your BMW, do tell us k...
instead of putting forth your points with substantial claims, you resort to flaming... if you don't have points, just say so... only pple without any substance and points will resort to flaming via e forum... and from what i see in other forums in other threads you posted to other pple, you are just someone very shallow in your thinking...
you better go do mlm... a person of your calibre is least likely to succeed in e coporate world...so mlm will be a better alternative for you. my guess is that you do not have a high education level too, as pple with a good education will not talk like you do.
now i know why you afraid to meet me.. its because my BMW and my income is enough to shut your mouth when you meet me. thats why you keep resorting to computer screen and phone call.....avoiding the realistic.
SAD FOR YOU...
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