New MLM company-M.I.T
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yeah....and happy searching for ur GodbrotherOriginally posted by laurence82:Nice meeting you too, promise I will contribute to your thread regularly, hehehe
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laurence...which company are you from?
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HAPPY NEW YEAR
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laurence, which company are you from??
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Active Advisor, Network Marketing Committee, Commercial Affairs Department, Singapore Police ForceOriginally posted by Alex Wong:laurence, which company are you from??
Hey, dont get mix up with the consultants, they are more senior, but sits around in their chair talk cock. -
aiyah...just tell which company u from lah...
why so secretive... -
Read ST's forum page today(1st Jan). There's one article on MLM companies...
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As above.
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How to tell good MLM firms from the bad
I REFER to Mr Leow Zi Xiang's letter, 'Dangers of multi-level marketing' (ST, Dec 30).
There are both legitimate as well as suspect multi-level marketing (MLM) firms, also known as network marketing companies.
When assessing an MLM company, you should ask yourself this question: 'Would I buy those products at those prices if not for the opportunity to make money?'
In other words, do you believe that the products give you quality corresponding to the price paid?
If you think the products are grossly overpriced, then others are also unlikely to buy the products if the hope of making money were not attached.
A good sign of a legitimate MLM company is that it has a significant base of consumers who are happy to buy and use its products without wanting to be in the business of MLM.
But even good companies may have doubtful distributors representing them. You do not want to be associated with a dubious company or distributor.
Some red flags signalling these:
# The products are grossly overpriced
# You are told that you must immediately spend a large sum of money on products which are beyond what would be reasonable for you to consume or sell within one or two months. This is known as 'front-loading' and is frowned upon
# The distributors are reluctant to talk about their products or answer questions about them, emphasising only the marketing plan or commissions.
Good MLM firms and distributors are willing to give information about both the income opportunity as well as the products.
# You are told that it is very easy to make money. On the contrary, MLM is like any other business and needs hard work, perseverance, good service and good products.
Anyone who tells you that MLM is easy money is to be viewed with extreme suspicion. MLM is simply an alternative distribution channel for manufacturing companies.
The money used to pay commissions is the money that would otherwise have gone to pay retail staff, rental, renovation costs for shops, advertising costs, profits for wholesalers, profits for franchise owners, and so on.
There are MLM companies selling quality products at fair prices and good distributors who are honest about the business opportunities. Avoid the bad ones.
TAN SOON MENG -
y cant they juz b more direct and list the names of the good ones and the bad ones...?
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cannot...that will render those 'bad' ones bankrupt due to loss of businessOriginally posted by tibirg:y cant they juz b more direct and list the names of the good ones and the bad ones...? -
You cant, its hard to tell, and network marketing, like other biz or products are based on consumers decisions.........Originally posted by tibirg:y cant they juz b more direct and list the names of the good ones and the bad ones...?
The only thing the authorities can do is to wipe out pyramids and other forms of scams. -
....ARGHhhhh....
im so p!ssed with the fact that i know of pple who r in it and i cant do anything abt it.... -
Actually, tibirg, the articles is very clear cut already.. If you want to know more you have to buy a book.
Just want to point out something. My friends and I would always say MLM is a get rich quicker scheme, not a get rich quick scheme. MLM is long term career, and please treat it so. At the start of this career, you will not be earning much due to various reasons, and the income will be progressively increased as times goes by (if you do work hard).
If you want to see immediate results, please go join pyramids and other scams. BTW, good companies i seen told me this realistic situation when they do a presentation for me. Some would just want to have small second income too to help pay bills. However, if you are financially dependent, please find a job first before doing MLM part time.You need the immediate income for expenses first. When your MLM biz gets big , and earning enough to cover monthly expenses and other spending, you should do it full time. -
i wish i hav nothing to do with any mlm thingy..
and i wont buy any books abt it. reading the data u provide is enough liao... -
(take a bow)Originally posted by tibirg:
i wish i hav nothing to do with any mlm thingy..
and i wont buy any books abt it. reading the data u provide is enough liao... -
Greetings guys.. First and foremost, a happy new year to you all!!
Saw my name mentioned in one of the previous article dated many days back. Sorry for not responding, mainly due to 2 reasons lah.. 1) Was kidda busy 2) Lack of interest in sgforums, many responses to messages were strictly flammatory with no justifiable debate, argument. So kidda turns me off. Only check it out once in a while mainly due to curiousity. 
Groan... mentioning about Binary. There're some companies in Singapore from what I know lah, operating with the Binary plan. Namely: WBG, USANA, ntiparis... With reference from my previous post, binary plan ain't illegal. The plan works lah, but again, it's normally the agents representing the company who make the mess of everything, tarnishing the image of not only the company, but as well as the industry... Arrgh.. check out the straits times today and you will know... Will have plenty of explaining to do on the authenticity of the industry again... So much for a new year
Kudos to lawrence82 for providing the links to binary plans regulation in the US. It helps to raise the awareness of people. Actually went down to ntiparis to see look some days ago, through some contacts of mine lah. As mentioned in the previous articles as well as in the straits times articles in the papers since the 30th, it really appears to me that there's some truth in their claims. Although it's common for companies to present their marketing plans first to prospects, it's bullshit to proclaim that products are not important lah, with not much information on them somemore... However, my friend from the company provided me with an acceptable explaination. With regards to the lack of info on products, he apologised and confessed that they're minimal solely because of the delay in printing etc, which are out of his control, but he'll try to answer my questions to the best of his knowledge.. He also acknowledged that there're indeed many in the company engaging in tatics that'll raise a brow or two, so voila, it's now in the papers.. (Although the first article presented in the papers on the 30th is more of a lack of knowledge of the plan & industry...)
Black sheep there may be in the company, but my friend did mention that he'll try his best within his means to engage in more ethical approach etc. but of course, only within his group and hopefully to the rest of the company. Feedback is welcome anytime...
My conclusion: Profile & background of the director & NOP, I dunno and I've no wish to comment since it's the past, common for any businesses to come & go lah, since the emphasis is now on nti, it's only natural to focus on digging out the history of those acquainted with it, bound to have records, the same goes for any other companies, if we bother to. I may have pee-ed in my pants 10 yrs back, but those who saw it can keep harping on the issue that I can't control my bladders till today,,, people.. My own values in life, 'dui shi bu dui ren' loh Maybe a word for the black sheep, I don't really blame them for hard selling their plan and directors only... can't expect them to wait for the sales kit and product info before they start their business, though I guess they're ignorant of the consequences... I applaud the integrity of my friend, there's still some light despite all the darkness.. haha So my conclusion is, with what was presented to me, in terms of plan and tech, ntiparis does have an edge. However, if their culture carries on, it'll only attract more unnecessary scrutiny and criticisms from the authorities and public.
With regards to the plan being mathematically flawed, I do have another point of view. The figures calculated merely represent the number of income centres, neither does it represent the number of customers and distributors. Any consumption and maintenance of products will be added down the list, so one can actually find many 'empty' income centres or a distributor holding more than one income centres. The same goes for other MLM companies engaging in different plans. It's complicated or impossible to calculate the number of people, since their emphasis is to go wide, which for some companies is limitless. Also, personal sales & comsumption are not considered as income centres for their plans. Hence depth such as binary which focuses on 2, makes calculation much more simplier but also more unrealistic in terms of figures
As for the differences between pyramid and binary plans... phew... My suggestion would be for those who understands the industry, spare some time to view the plan entirely, I'll be glad to explain, with ntiparis out of the picture. For those who don't believe in this industry, I respect your decision, but your opinions on the comparison maybe biased loh...
but its your choice lah. My point of view is, pyramid selling belongs to egypt, either you sell your stuff on top of the pyramid, or you own one of them and intending to sell to a potential buyer lah... haha.
Thank you for your kind attention... groan... -
Hey timandra, why the groans, came back from New Year party?
Me also, slept till afternoon, and sleep again till evening, -
Regarding the ST articles, there are four of them
Mr Leow Zixiang on 'Dangers of MLM' on 30th December'
On Jan 1st
Chairman. DSAS on "Sales structure legal but methods may be wrong"
Mr Lim Jia Qing on "Beware of hard sell tactics"
Mr Tan Soon Meng on "How to tell good MLM firms from the bad"
Please guys, go and read them carefully.
Mr Leow Zixiang and Mr Lim Jia Qing articles are clearly referring to ntiparis.
a) Mr Lim paid for three accounts in ntiparis (refer to the hybrid bianry plan) $288 x 3 = $864
b) Timandra is right to say Mr Leow article dsiplay lack of knowledge on the industry
c) Hey, Mr Tan's article is quite good if not exhaustive. This is what I have been emphasising all along. Well, too bad, these good companies are too few in SG.
d) Mr Benjamin Tan (hehe) has provide good points too, as well as emphasising people should patronise DSAS members companies, as well be aware of its codes and ethics (that people been complaining about in other companies) Btw, not all DSAS companies are MLM companies, only a handful out of the presently 17 companies. But, I was wondering why AMH is allowed in due to its hard sell tactics not seen in other DSAS companies. But to be fair, companies like Herbalife should be allowed into DSAS, even if they have blemishes before, maybe they havent apply yet? -
Timandra, I read your post and I do not agree with the part on them not pushing products due to lack of sales kits.
a) If they lacked of sales kits, where would my $288 goes? If much of it goes towards products, two points. One, $288 pays for many aromatheraphy products. Wouldnt it be front loading?. Two, $288 pays for few aromatheraphy poducts. Arent they grossly overpriced?
Hope you dont say it goes towards recruitment commission? Hehe
b) Aromatheraphy products, unlike many other products, does not allow one easily to know the markets demand and market values. Remember what I posted about many pyramid putting many exotic stuff as front for their scheme? ntiparis did not prove the quality and effectivenes of these products they are selling. Also, these are luxury goods, and not neccessities, how would one expect teenagers to sell when a) their contacts are also teenagers with no money and no demand for these goods b)parents who may have money but no demand c)do they have many rich contacts?
Effectiveness of aromatheraphy is not conclusive, although I would prescribe it for theraphy and wellness, than healing and curing.
Basically, for aromatheraphy, I would rather turn to BelairParis. (Just a story, my friend's fiancee was in Belair, but he couldnt tahan the smell, seems girls appreciate aromatheraphy better)
c) Belairparis do provide infos and catalogues on their products. Look, I dont know whats ntiparis products, effectiveness and most of all safety. If ntiparis lack of catalogue and sales kits
1)how they manage to sell without sale kits these time all along- by word of mouth? meaning they have very good saleman. Sorry I wont be able to join coz I am not a good speaker.
2) how do they train their downlines? I need these product guides and stuff to guide me too. If everything comes by word of mouth, are they really effective in passing required information to downlines, up to the usage of these products?
3) Nothing to prove the effectiveness and safety of these products. Imagine I took a weight loss product without knowing the contents, and later to discover it contains ephedrine. Similarly, we do not know the safety mark, and quality check of these products. All companies provide services or products, and as MLM company, nti should have good aromatheraphy products in the market...or is it? And whether they are good or not, the agents should be also pushing sales of products, not just recruitment.
Most of all, one of my friend join in last year. Dont tell me that ntiparis has been runing without a sales kits all these past year? I asked another friend once for sale kits and stuff. He told me he didnt bring. I had suspected all along they do not have sales kits. For the past one year!!! Something is not right somewhere...
I went to one young company once, with its boss having minimal MLM experience. They already have everything set up, including products catalogue and stuff. Even literature of their marketing plans have been printed out.. James Phang claims he has many years experience in MLM, yet not having a product cat, or for that matter, any literature on the company seems like a farce to me.
Let me tell you an experience. My friend and his relative wanted to set up a restaurant. They have planned everything and presented their plans to their investors. I was there, and saw the whole hting. I was impressed, coz because of their experience, they have include every minor details. Like MLM or any biz, there are like certain "must do" routine before setting up a biz. Even if you are damn experienced you would have left out something. But remember, products are mainstay of biz, and for MLMers, products guides are a must,so it would be no excuse for an experienced guy like him not to to have produce it beforehand.
d0 Cutting edge? Basically, ntiparis form the above points have either dubious or lousy management, sorry to say that. On the front, I do agree, ntiparis seems want to correct the faults of other companies. After research, not only do I find it dubious, it has more faults than other established companies.
For a boss of Amway to close down his business and to start another, I would expect better results with the new one, Unfortunately, after some time, I dont find ntiparis much more fantastic than NOP. I told tibirg this before, for inexperienced MLMers, just wait. It took AMH sometime for everyone to know its faults. To nitparis, it will take sometime for people to know whether it works. As of now, the faults are start to show up. with now reports in the paper already.
I will repeat what I said before in reference to DennisLam posts, nti will be to us what commodities done ot our parents few years back -
quick, pple! pump in more complaints into the papers....everywhere!
oh..sorry -
Wah so hiong arh, true in one thing is that once a pyramid or any scam gets too big and get noticed, it will vamoose before you can say "scam!"Originally posted by tibirg:quick, pple! pump in more complaints into the papers....everywhere!
oh..sorry
I forgot one point on Timandra post
NOP is still running, and as investment company. Remember the Batam club which was never built despite 1000 people paying $3800 each for it. That belongs to NOP Investment.
If I were to say a guy who failed can never rise again, thats utterly childish. Yet I have not harp on James Phang failures. What I mentioned is his NOP (supposedly his past) is still running, as we can know from the Batam case.
Plus these two dubious companies, make me worried as to james Phang personality.
Btw, there is this maxim I recently learned and adhere to. Boss of MLM companies must not have second business. Sounds funny? It happened. MLM must equals distributor welfare. A boss which has many business are merely looking at which business is the most profitable.
To agents in ntiparis who are imbued with "biz knowledge", this having many biz may shows the boss is "talented" and can run business well, and know the power of investment too.
To many MLMers, this is nonsense, coz the boss is not concentrating on his MLM biz as core, and looking for his own profits. Lack of focus is the mainstay of many rising MLM biz problems. Worse as in many biz in corporate world, we may not know where the profits are actually channelled to. -
quite true..
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harlow laurence. you are correct. my headache mainly due to hangovers and fatigue... cycled all the way to and fro from hougang to downtown east for countdown... out of my mind. Also the bombshell of the claims made regarding the industry... Nothing good about the industry comes out from the papers... Maybe i'm biased against the editors?? haha
With regards to your explaination of allocation of 288. This same question can be posted to all MLM companies too. With reference from BelAir, their top distributor of grand duke gets a commission payout of 42%. People will also start asking where the other 58% goes... The selling price of products depends on individual companies but they must be competitive and not differ much loh. Must also note that, most MLM companies recommend selling products at the retail price, not distributor price. Imagine having a grand duke selling his product at 42% discount... confirm spoil market...
To the best of my understanding and what was presented to me, without taking consumer demand and needs into account, what you've explained proves my point!! Many distributors dunno how to promote products without the materials and training, or one can insist that they choose not to... so hence the apology from my friend as well as the companys focus on hard selling their plan and directors etc(i'm sure you guys knows the rest), which leads to the hoo haa that we're seeing right now... I personally wouldn't be convinced of the products without any materials to prove their worth... Hence I applaud my friend and his group for reading up on the concept, which is still quite general though.. Although assumption makes an ass of you and me, what if their sales kit manage to roll out?? What if their culture improves?? What if the tide is turned?? haha.. fingers crossed! But it should be good news for those whose friends are in there.
As for product info, I've mentioned that it's minimal. My friend can only show me the history and procedures of using the product. that minimal.
From my own knowledge, I may be wrong, ntiparis was set up in july last year(2003) Back then, even the bare essentials such as products and office were not even ready yet! There must be plenty accusing them of even more hideous crimes... ouch... The last time I went, my friend told me that their stock of carrier bags just arrived... they were using elixar dynamic bags before that... 2nd ouch... At least they're improving bit by bit??
And what I meant of cutting edge is their plan (it's a good binary plan if the methods they employ are good!) as well as their website(technology which really makes things convenient). When correctly applied, they're powerful tools to enhance ones business... but of course all judgement still base on the representation of the distributors... Lousy management?? maybe... Scam?? Binary plan is legal... period. Still depends on the culture and distributors to prove its legitimacy... Hard selling on the plan neglecting the products?? confirmed plus guarantee... Doomed to eternal suffering?? don't have to lah, my friend is still in there.
Lastly, I try my best to base my opinions on what I know and understand from a neutral point of view. It is indeed disappointing to learn that such culture is adopted in the company by the majority, however I was presented the otherwise indeed... I may be right pointing the finger at the company now... but given such a painful lesson they learned for this few days, I'm sure they'll change their approach. Maybe they'll turn into a much more sophisticated 'scam'?? I wish for the best!
Regards
P.S. It's amazing that none of ntiparis distributors jumped in to defend the company. Or else it'll be another chicken and egg argument... just like the tread on AMH. With all the facts and information provided, I'm sure readers are wise enough to judge for themselves... I certainly hope that this tread ends soon... the egg comes first lah... period Maybe can start a new tread focusing on how to improve the industry etc without the implications of any company... seems more constructive to me also.. haha -
You do have a point there...
I think our MLM expert laurence however will soon come back with a barrage of replies though... -
haha. not a problem. Constructive interaction is always welcome. Moreover, I trust laurence to be able to base his judgement on rational logic rather than on unfounded emotional accusation. Also from a link that laurence82 provided. there's a particular quote that caught my attention.
"every accused would look guilty if we only heard from the prosecution." Hope that we can all bear a listening ear to the defense before concluding, be it for any company or industry...
New barrage of workload coming again after these holidays... arrghh... Almost time to do my disappearing act again! Wish you guys all the best!
regards
"even god himself does not propose to judge man until the end of his days... why should you and I??"