New MLM company-M.I.T
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Haha. I think we are talking about different people all alongOriginally posted by laurence82:You said you met this James Phang before and learned from him. So what post or job he hold in AMH before? and is he a bespectacled nerdy man, either in 30s or 40s, smoke Salem?
Thanks
But kind of coincidence to have this thing happen 
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But one thing for sure, you said this James Phang you met become boss of nti, yet the boss of nti is what i described. Yet, the boss of nti wouldnt appear in AMH for some reasons.Originally posted by AwAkEn:Haha. I think we are talking about different people all along But kind of coincidence to have this thing happen
So the only link is some people from AMH went over nti, thats it? -
Dear all,
I am a student. I am writing this because I have just came back from the NTI Paris office in Shenton Way. I was asked to go there by a friend who was in turned invited by an NTI Paris employee. Now, after listening to 2 hours of drivel from the NTI employee, all I have to say is that NTI Paris is a devious and despicable pyramid scam, and I swear I will do everything in my power to bring it down before it harms more innocents.
Pardon me if I am wrong, but isn't the main concept of any business, MLM or not, to sell *products* and not to recruit people into the company for monetary gains? This was the overwhelming impression that I was given at NTI Paris. The employee who talked to me consistently refused to answer questions about the actual products (aromatherapy stuff) that they were selling, concentrating instead on the amount of money that I can earn each month by building up the pyramid under me. He emphasized very strongly on the fact that money is mainly made from recruitment; each time someone joins your binary-downlink tree, you get money from it. When questioned about what the company actually have to does for a living, he evaded the question, and zealously went back to talking about the immense monetary benefits of creating "business centers." He continuously points to the benefits of buying business centers and bringing in more people to the fold, going so far as to warn me not to spread the word too much, because as of now, I am "not sufficiently trained to advertise the company," and that the time will come when I will be sufficiently trained to advertise this business plan to further recruits.
Now this begs the question, if the business plan is so amazingly good that every employee become instant millionaires if they work hard enough, then why is there a need for such secrecy? Also, and the more pertinent question is, WHERE DOES ALL THIS MONEY COME FROM? Simple mathematics will tell you that it comes from all the people at the bottom of the pyramid, the people who have been sweet-talked into giving hundreds or even thousands on dollars to the company, with no hope of getting any returns either because the market is already saturated, or because the people at the top of the pyramid has run away with all the money. The NTI Paris employee frequently brings up the subject of "following your dreams" and "becoming what you want to be," as do most MLM employees in this thread. I encourage people to do their best in life too, and to strive to make as much money as they can, if that is indeed their aim. But the question is, AT WHAT COST? Is it worth it financing your dreams by bilking other people out of their hard-earned money? That is crime, and at a time like this, I cannot possibly condone such dastardly business acts.
The names "James Phang" and "Dato Dr. Eric Tan Eng Huat" was frequently mentioned during my talk with the NTI Paris employee. It was mentioned in such reverence, suggesting that they are saintly figures who have made it rich, and are interested in helping us commoners to be "part of the wealth" too. Believe none of this. If indeed they are aware of this, they are cheats indeed, and very malicious ones too. They are the rich who wants to get richer by swindling the poor of even more wealth. Charitable businessmen? More like decadent frauds. And the employees who use their names as part of the recruitment speech should be deeply ashamed.
Now you may ask, why am I so outraged? Am I working for another MLM that wants to see NTI Paris go down? No, I am not. In fact, I stand to gain nothing from NTI Paris' demise, if that occurs. But I do have friends who have invested much of their money in the scheme, and are prepared to further recruit more innocent people into the scheme to finance their earnings. They do not realize that the business plan is fundamentally flawed, or that the money that they get comes from people at the "bottom of the pile." It is never a Win-Win situation, it is Win-Lose; the people at the top of the pyramid gets richer, the people at the bottom gets poorer. And don't pull the curtains over my eyes by telling me that the pyramid can go on getting deeper forever ... a fool is born every minute, but a binary tree made up of "business partners" won't go beyond 50 levels even if you include all the people who have ever set foot on the earth, past and present.
There is never easy money. Not lawful ones anyway (excluding the one-in-a-million chance of a lottery ticket). It pains me to see my friends getting their money sucked into this deceitful scheme. And so I must speak out, before more people get cheated of their/ their parent's hard earned money. -
Well, dennis' points mirror my sentiments.
However, after I gather the facts, I do not know how to pull my friends out. They are really brainwashed, coz most never seen other companies before, and seen the industry through the eyes of James Phang, who "taught" them how MLM biz "really should goes".
Unless one ventures to see few companies, it is very hard to appreciate how funny ntiparis is. Most believe in James Phang, in binary (totally), in how biz supposed to run nti way. I have friends who read success books and NM books. In many ways, even if we knew the funnny features of nti, how does one argue successfully with people who take out points from books? Like we knew army officers are running an event ineffectually, but cannot argue coz he knew how to make "logical' points, not effectual points.
Even if we present them the facts, two things might occur. Non acceptance and self denial. Remember, the truth is hard to swallow, and no one will admit they themselves are wrong.
Dennis, may I ask how you plan to bring the company down? Coz my conclusion is that to let the company falls and the suckers suckered, or the police catch up with them. I was just afraid some bad influence might lure them to join such companies again.
Few things to disclose here, and I hope people of AMH, ntiparis and NOP take note. There are links between these three companies definitely. How? Firstly, examine AMH methods of earning money, and relates them to ntiparis.Trace AMH boss history and you will find something. Secondly, note the points I tried to ask aWaken about AMH and ntiparis. NOP is the definite link to ntiparis, how ever you will want to read ST on Friday 19th Dec page two to know what is NOP.Thirdly, trace James Phang past buisness doings, and you will find something. Let me give u guys a clue, I may own this house definitely, but it is under my wife's name. In the eyes of the law, the house belongs to my wife, although I may have provided the money for it. When the house is eventually sold off, my wife gave me the money, but the HDB wouldnt care where the money goes.
Lastly, to hell with scams.
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anything on Venture Era?
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Well, I can try to help you find out. Only things I know is from the topic on VE, plus VE is started by people from AMH.Originally posted by NeonTetra:anything on Venture Era?
Knowing the links among NOP, nti and AMH, I do not trust VE, but there is no harm finding out more.
Are you from VE, or your friends in there? -
yup....friends thereOriginally posted by laurence82:Well, I can try to help you find out. Only things I know is from the topic on VE, plus VE is started by people from AMH.
Knowing the links among NOP, nti and AMH, I do not trust VE, but there is no harm finding out more.
Are you from VE, or your friends in there? -
Hey, I'm glad someone shares my sentiments. But laurence82, I don't quite understand why you've continuously talked about "waiting for the police to come." Why wait? Aren't pyramid business schemes illegal under Singapore Law (and in most other countries too)? I understand that MLM is now legal, but not such pyramid schemes, where recruitment is primary and the product to be sold is of secondary importance. Why can't I go to the police right now and make a report? In fact, I believe I will, unless someone convinces me that there is a legal loophole in Singapore that allows NTI Paris to continue with such deception. I will probably upset some of my friends, but I'd rather that happen than to see more people getting swindled.
A sidenote too, to NTI Paris employees ... have you grown a brain for nothing? Can you not see beyond the veil over your eyes and honestly tell me there is nothing wrong with the business practice? There is almost a cult like reverence for your company's directors. Please ... wake up. They are cheats ... wealthy cheats, but cheats nonetheless. They have done nothing for the people. Stop acting as though James Phang is going to "share the wealth". James Phang and NTI Paris is Marshall Applegate and Heaven's Gate waiting to happen all over again if you don't realize it soon. -
Sigh....tell you my story.
I ord from Army this year in August, and waiting for school to start. I was aimless and need to find job. Yes I can hold out my hand and ask my mother for money. My family is not rich, but is not in want. However, I want to get outside experience, and I dont want to burden my mum (wait, let not my mum read this, she will laugh) So, i got acquainted with Herbalife thru net.
However, I found a better company.And now is doin it. But, I was still invited by many companies to go down and see. I been to AMH and nti too. At first I can see AMH is legal, but maybe lousy due to reasons you all know. After that, I met nti. I was shocked, coz been thru few companies, it was the first time I seen such companies. You all can see my points I posted. I was worried and start doing my research. Contacted people involve in scams, talked to experienced networkers, research by articles books, talk to people on sgforums, contact few guys in nti too. Therefore, my points as i posted
However, however, however, i was scared. I met one of my friends and he gave me this advice. He was involved in such scams before. He told me few things and plus my points I present to you guys in the next post
To be continued........ -
Ok ,as for the pros and cons of whether to inform the police.
a) Can you assure me the police is that good? Look, if you look at the Commercial Affairs Department website, it lists the procedure of reporting such scams. It is damn leceh, and you need certain evidence to back you up. Your friend wrote you the binary plan on a piece of blank paper, which you did not keep. The company website did not show the recruitment plan, only the "sales" plan. Scheming arent them? Even for CASE. The procedures is enough to kill you, less the investigation part.
I read in an article, that seven case were reported to CAD last year. So far, nothing to substantiate the claims, even after investigations.
How good is the CAD? Look, comparing US police and SG police, we are far behind. In US, the police has been streetwise from young. They discern from own experience, instead of just reading past cases. True they are educated, but they clamp down more on scams than us. Not forgetting US scams are a lot and cleverer. In US each month, each state police are grabbing a handfull of scams.
In SG, I was disgusted of the low rate of capture of scams. I seen pyramid scams up and running for long time, and they exist in many places. Commodities are back, with vengeance. All the newspaper did was just a small report few months ago on laws on commodities. In US, they clamp down on binary a lot. According to an experienced networker in SG, the reason why police is not clamping down yet is because binary has yet to cause a furore. Remember, binary is a double edged sword. In US, more than half of the binaries companies have been clamped down. Not because binary is illegal (well it isnt), just that it is easily used as basics of pyramid.
It takes a thief to catch a thief. I admit, Ntiparis is f***king sophiscated, compared to usual scams. But scammers are very clever people. Each time, scams are getting more sophiscated and difficult to catch. Most DSA or mlm watchdogs would prefer you to just leave cases to police, coz nowadays, only experienced networker can see thru most sophiscated ones. Actually, those esperienced are mostly of our parents age or been out there for many years. Unless our police is confirmed that good, or they have paid informants and other tools to help them, police may not catch the. Primary rule number one - You must outsmart scammers. And scammers move fast.
I will explain the sophiscation of scams nowadays later, and why it is not easy, and why you cant see even if they stare at you right in the face.
All hopes lost? Well, you can go and report to police, but dont have high hopes. Nothing may come up.
But if the police is successful? Minimal punishment for participants of scam (your friends) can be just warning letters. Max? $30,000 to $200,000 fine, or jail for five years or both. NSFs and Regulars beware. Five years in civilian jail may also equal to five years in DB, plus other charges SAF might put up. For the organisers of such scams, the penalty might be higher. All in all, your friends are at risk of jail or heavy fines.
Well, a glimmer of hope here. Go read up on S888.com. Coz of it, MLM is legalised ,as well as regulated under DSAS, CASE and MTI. Funnily, most of us teenagers hardly join these companies that are under DSAS or large recognised companies. Many I know joins dubious, small, shady ones. You must know the perils of shady young business.If you read up on S888.com, it was caught not because it physically flouts the laws on pyramid, but because it runs in the spirit of one. Thats why police caught them.
These are the pros and cons of calling police. What happened if you sit back and do nothing? -
b) Look, you can sit back and do nothing. Why?
Lets say you do nothing, and company collapse (it will). Your friends are not losing anything. If your friends join in as "pioneers" of the company, they would have earned liao and recovers that 288 dollars they pumped in. For short term, they will definitely earn. The reasons I will explain as promised just now. In long term, either they find their earnings "dropped" or the company make infrequent payments, or even withold money in form of vouchers. They just stop earning , thats all. They wont lose money, coz others start to pump in money for them at present. Maybe when company collapse, they just learn the lessons, and waste time and effort only.
How about people who joins and company collapse the next day? Look, $288 is nothing for a simple lessons. Too bad I have to be straightforward. People lost five figure sums in the commodities scams before, and this is their coffin money or life savings. $288 is too small to pay for a worthy lesson.
All in all, nobody is taking a steep fall from this climb on the mountain. They just reroute, thats all. They are not going to lose everything, just time and effort.
What I am most afraid of some bastards will take my friends and go look for another company, resulting in a merry go round. They will not stop to look for money, just that they will continue doing so till others lead them away from the bad influence
However, however, however, like I told friends who has siblings inside, that I cannot assure you that definitely police will remain clueless and not knocking on your friends door. Coz, we are not the only people in whole of SG who knows. Simply said, whether or not to report to police is up to you. It is choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea. Sigh...
When I came to this conclusion, I could not accept it at first, coz I was impatient, and wish company will collapse and I can have my friends back, especially one of them whom I wish to be my godbrother. I was farking tired of the company agents evasiveness and, most of all, my friend stubborness and hostility towards others.
However, do not stop your crusade, Dennis. Attempt to explain to others what you seen and know. Btw, for people who read this, let me assure you guys one thing. I have seen the wide tentacles of ntiparis and NOP. When the saga comes to end, it will cause furore in the country, especially the teenagers like the commodities scams to our parents many years ago. Just be prepared.
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Guys, I just noted something in Dennis post that I should have notice long time ago.(knock myself on head)
What is 2 to the power of 30?
There once a knight who done a deed for the king. He was offered by the king to ask for anything he wishes. The knight ask for a grain of rice (i think it is rice or something) according to a certain calculations. He ask for a grain of rice for the first square on the chessboard, and two grains on the second square, and four on the third square. So for each square of chessboard, the number of grains doubles. The knight ask for the sum of of all the grains that appears on the 64 squares. The king laughed and agreed. The knight smiled and told the king its not possible. The king ask why. Here's why
If you guys use your calculator and calculate, the amount of grains is 1.8 x (10 to the power of 19) on just the 64th square! I havent even total up yet, forgot the formula for geometrical progression.
Heck it is 18 million million million grains just on 64th square. Even if the king harvest all the crops past present and future, he cant still give the knight whats he wants in total. The mathematician alredi calculate this and found it to be impossible to achieve.
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If I give you $100,000 today for the month, or 1 cent which doubles itself for everyday of the month, which would you take? Most will take $100,000 coz it looks quite big at first sight. People, the 1 cent which doubles it self ends up as $ 5,368,709.13.
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Here is the kicker from Dennis here.
ntiparis is binary meaning two guys under you, two guys under each of them. ntiparis earns up to 30th level. Meaning (pounce away on your calculator) at the 30th level alone, your network has 1,073,741,824 people. Gasp, you have whole of China under you. Walau. This is almost impossible, even without adding up the total.
Haha, ntiparis is mathematically flawed too. This is crazy.
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Lessons end, Mary collect the homework from yesterday and give them back, those with "see me" on them or with "nao hia, copy from Simon right?" please see me after class. Hey, Leo, f*** off from Alice, you are too young too be buaya.......... -
So you are in another MLM company too? No wonder....
If you are talking about Elken, so be it but I do not see the need to push your company up by bringing other companies down...this vicious cycle will carry on...
Just my 2 cents -
Apologies if I am seen as boasting or push companies down. I have seen good ones on the market I can recommend you. They even include up and coming ones.
Btw, I would not confirm nor deny me from Elken or XYZ company. Coz, identity crisis (hehe).
Like Dennis, I have seen dubious companies before. Its my belief that dubious scams shall fall. Hey, my friends are in them...
Note all my postings here. I never comment on companies I have not met before, plus I argue point for point why I think something is lousy or wrong with the company I met. So far its herbalife, amh and nti. I have not met others, and would not comment on them.
Plus I go research. I went down to amh specifically to see for myself, although many friends complain about them.
Hope you do understand my position on "facts" and "flaming" companies -
Hmm, why didnt hellodoggy mention i might be CAD officer in disguise?
Muahahahaha..... -
While I do understand the rationale behind, I do feel that you are a tad over-zealous in your approach to classify as to what is good and what is not. There is no such thing as a perfect company and all companies have their pros and cons. But by doing so, you are discriminating already, and the fact that you are also in a MLM company adds obscurity to your statements. Whatever your intentions are, I leave others to debate over it. Here I just comment based on my observations. Kudos and Happy New Year to allOriginally posted by laurence82:Apologies if I am seen as boasting or push companies down. I have seen good ones on the market I can recommend you. They even include up and coming ones.
Btw, I would not confirm nor deny me from Elken or XYZ company. Coz, identity crisis (hehe).
Like Dennis, I have seen dubious companies before. Its my belief that dubious scams shall fall. Hey, my friends are in them...
Note all my postings here. I never comment on companies I have not met before, plus I argue point for point why I think something is lousy or wrong with the company I met. So far its herbalife, amh and nti. I have not met others, and would not comment on them.
Plus I go research. I went down to amh specifically to see for myself, although many friends complain about them.
Hope you do understand my position on "facts" and "flaming" companies -
Don't worry, I am not accusing you, lest you get too defensiveOriginally posted by laurence82:Hmm, why didnt hellodoggy mention i might be CAD officer in disguise?
Muahahahaha..... . But whatever it is, a good networker will concentrate on his company only and keep his focus. Time and especially his paycheck will show all. Cheers 
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Hey Happy New Year to you too.
Hmm, muz go for self review liao
Overzealous? Yup, u are rite. Coz, basically, me fed up with the real world liao. Why cant it be like the time we still at school, so innocent and carefree? Hmmm
Being in a MLM company adds obscurity to my statements......I dont agree. Even the company I join has flaws too, I must admit. I agree there is no perfect company. Lets just say, if I have never been to these companies, I would have never been on sgforums too. Coz, I need to find out more about MLM, and its one of the reasons i sign up, and comment, hoping people can add insight to my views. Cutting up companies according to my overzealous points of view is not what I hope to achieve here. Must aplogise if I do give the impression here.
For ntiparis, and the rest, like i said and advise dennis(although its suppose to be his choice), we just have to wait. No point reporting police and make fusses too.Coz, i nthe end we maybe clueless. -
Damn, you sound like someone, one of my friends.....hmmmmmmOriginally posted by hellodoggy:Don't worry, I am not accusing you, lest you get too defensive. But whatever it is, a good networker will concentrate on his company only and keep his focus. Time and especially his paycheck will show all. Cheers 
U in any MLM company too?
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True true, coz me so worried for my friends I neglect my own work to find out more on others, especially those i find "dubious"Originally posted by hellodoggy:Don't worry, I am not accusing you, lest you get too defensive. But whatever it is, a good networker will concentrate on his company only and keep his focus. Time and especially his paycheck will show all. Cheers
Made my upline fed up, he knew I know at least how to review companies and not worried I go outside and lured by more "attractive" companies. But, he told me few times, let the sleeping dogs lie, that is not much I can do anyway. If I dont focus on my own work and kaypoh on others, my income suffers too.
Well at least, most of the times me and my upline discuss about other companies (he also has this philosophy never to discuss other companies unless we seen ti for oursleves), we agreed on whose products are good, whose has nicer benefits and stuff
(god, Tiens of China gave away yacht and plane, I heard onli)
Well, for me in mlm its quite enjoyable too, and challenging.....muahahahhaahhaha
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laurence82, which company are you in????
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Huh? Why? You wanna join? Muahahahaha....Originally posted by Alex Wong:laurence82, which company are you in????
Yupz, I might be a conman, you know......(pounding away on asbacus to see how much I profits from suckers today....) -
Wow, this topic reached 97th reply, and 1580 views at this point of time. Next year going school liao, so not much time online (especially on sgforums)
Just wish you guys out there great success in whatever you do. Remember, what you do in life, echoes in eternity. Do nothing and it echoes into a empty chamber, do something and it passes from generation to generation. -
school also can come here. just make use of ur time lorOriginally posted by laurence82:Wow, this topic reached 97th reply, and 1580 views at this point of time. Next year going school liao, so not much time online (especially on sgforums)
Just wish you guys out there great success in whatever you do. Remember, what you do in life, echoes in eternity. Do nothing and it echoes into a empty chamber, do something and it passes from generation to generation. -
Nice meeting you too, promise I will contribute to your thread regularly, heheheOriginally posted by NeonTetra:school also can come here. just make use of ur time lor