New MLM company-M.I.T
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Hi guys,
I added a link to one of many resources you can find to avoid disguised pyramid.Its very helpful to us.
http://www.dsa.org/selling/pyramid.htm
I think I wil explain why I think there is something wrong with ntiparis later
See yah -
Hello! Just clicked by to check out here and I'm surprised that you guys have been talkin' abt this... Well, I was asked by my friend to join this company too and I'm having the same thinking which this forum is talking abt. Some of my doubts. Are this company certified with ISO Certification? and is it approved by the ministry of health abt the product they're selling? or is it a scam cos' it's ridiculous to pay a sum of money before you start your "Work"!
Lawrence82, you've been to the company i supposed? is it that scary that how the way people reacted there? mmm...
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This is a good test for whether a network marketing company is legitimate. Ask yourself: "would I buy this product, at this price, if not for the business opportunity". If you can't honestly answer "yes", stay away. Another similar test, if you are already doing NM is: "If I were to quit the business right now, would I still continue buying these products that I'm now selling?" Again, if you can't answer "yes", it might be good to get out of the business.
A legitimate NM company will have real products bought by real people at real prices. An NM company's products need not be the cheapest around, but they must offer good value for the money you are paying. A sign of a good NM company is that there are consumers who are interested in the products but have no interest in doing the business. These consumers have simply decided not to purchase, say, health supplements from GNC or Nature's Farm, but from the NM company.
Hope this is helpful for those who are looking at the industry. -
Massachusetts Institute of Technology???
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FYI, you do not need ISO certification for a company to prove it's good. AMH has its products approved too by Ministry of Health, meaning no side effects but in the end they are still grossly overpriced. The pricing is what matters, but there is no governmentOriginally posted by Co--7:Hello! Just clicked by to check out here and I'm surprised that you guys have been talkin' abt this... Well, I was asked by my friend to join this company too and I'm having the same thinking which this forum is talking abt. Some of my doubts. Are this company certified with ISO Certification? and is it approved by the ministry of health abt the product they're selling? or is it a scam cos' it's ridiculous to pay a sum of money before you start your "Work"!
Lawrence82, you've been to the company i supposed? is it that scary that how the way people reacted there? mmm...
board to keep it in check. As for ISO, it is only for the admin procedures of the company. The company can be unethical yet get ISO thanks to its well-manned system, but most do not bother to as businessmen know that ISO is entirely unnecessary.
Just my 2 cents
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unethical but get ISO certification? not true. it depends on the company. My dad is a ISO assesor. If its HIS company, u better be good or prepare to be screwed over. There was a petrol company i shall not name who, whom a few years back was certified by them. then their quality got worse and they switched certification companies, to a local one, because my dad's company was too strict. Oh his company is a UK-based certification company.Originally posted by hellodoggy:FYI, you do not need ISO certification for a company to prove it's good. AMH has its products approved too by Ministry of Health, meaning no side effects but in the end they are still grossly overpriced. The pricing is what matters, but there is no government
board to keep it in check. As for ISO, it is only for the admin procedures of the company. The company can be unethical yet get ISO thanks to its well-manned system, but most do not bother to as businessmen know that ISO is entirely unnecessary.
Just my 2 cents -
It might not be true in your dad's case, but in this world, it is all about contacts. That is a sad fact. Policemen shouldn't be corrupted, but still some of them (not in Singapore) are. So it not only depends on the company, but also on the people involved. Why I know is because I have been involved. However, what your father has been doing is commendable, and I applaud him for his steadfastness in such grey times, but not others. CheersOriginally posted by HENG@:unethical but get ISO certification? not true. it depends on the company. My dad is a ISO assesor. If its HIS company, u better be good or prepare to be screwed over. There was a petrol company i shall not name who, whom a few years back was certified by them. then their quality got worse and they switched certification companies, to a local one, because my dad's company was too strict. Oh his company is a UK-based certification company.
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heng, i got bad news for you...
ANYONE can get ISO rating...
just like ANYONE can get the Singapore Quality Class rating...
i've seen "companies" with just a mobile phone, no fax, no address win the SQC rating... and the SQC braindeaths rate themselves to be up there with the ISO assessors...
and if you cut to the bone, ISO means less than nothing to people in the know...Originally posted by HENG@:unethical but get ISO certification? not true. it depends on the company. My dad is a ISO assesor. If its HIS company, u better be good or prepare to be screwed over. There was a petrol company i shall not name who, whom a few years back was certified by them. then their quality got worse and they switched certification companies, to a local one, because my dad's company was too strict. Oh his company is a UK-based certification company. -
yah... u can get from some of e "anyhow" companies out there. most local ISO firms are like that. Not my dad's company.Originally posted by the Bear:heng, i got bad news for you...
ANYONE can get ISO rating...
just like ANYONE can get the Singapore Quality Class rating...
i've seen "companies" with just a mobile phone, no fax, no address win the SQC rating... and the SQC braindeaths rate themselves to be up there with the ISO assessors...
and if you cut to the bone, ISO means less than nothing to people in the know... -
whatever happens, the ISO system is screwed.. there are more loopholes than a badly tangled knot... and exploited...
ISO to those in the know, is more a hinderance than a boon these days...Originally posted by HENG@:yah... u can get from some of e "anyhow" companies out there. most local ISO firms are like that. Not my dad's company. -
ISO ratings have been concerned... now i wanna know more about that ntiparis company... anyone out there knows about it?? Legal? or a scam??
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nothing special..
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i was wondering why you guys cannot think it as a normal sales and marketing compnay
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Anyone?! what the hell is that ntiparis company does? anyone can answer me this question? It seems weird abt what Lawrence82 had said before 'brainwashed'??
There's no Free Lunch in this world... Fast Money? Think Twice...
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Hey guys
muzz really apologise for late reply...damn plane lands me somewhere in South America.....
Anyway, for those who wants to know more abt ntiparis, I could only tell you as much, so could G.H.O.S.T (hullo!) or other guys. The rest is up to you to decide whether ntiparis is worth doing.
When I was first approached by my friend, he lead me to the old office on ground floor, sat down and start pounding away by writing the marketing plan on three pieces of paper.I noted the following,
1. He wrote out the first plan, which states how much you can first earn by recruitment. Everyone pays $288, you put them under you or your downline "Business centre" binary system style, therefore earning certain amount for each set of number of people you have balanced under you. I was shocked, and ask him immediately if there are products involved.He told me yes, products are included.
2. He then wrote a second plan, which involves how much you earn by sales. This plan you all can see on their website. His reasoning was that they move recruitment first, then later sales. Sounds like a good MLM company which wanted to correct faults of other failed companies? Here are the anomalies I found out
Quote from DSA US on disguised pyramid.
'If the startup cost is substantial, be careful! The start-up fee in multilevel companies is generally small (usually for a sales kit sold at or below company cost). These companies want to make it easy and inexpensive for you to start selling. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, make nearly all of their profit on signing up new recruits. Therefore, the cost to become a distributor is usually high. CAUTION: PYRAMIDS OFTEN DISGUISE ENTRY FEES AS PART OF THE PRICE CHARGED FOR REQUIRED PURCHASES OF TRAINING, COMPUTER SERVICES, PRODUCT INVENTORY, etc. These purchases may not even be expensive or "required," but there will be considerable pressure to "take full advantage of the opportunity."
To look like a multilevel marketing company, a pyramid scheme takes on a line of products and claims to be in the business of selling them to consumers. However, little or no effort is made to actually market the products. Instead, money is made in typical pyramid fashion, from recruiting. New distributors are pushed to purchase large and costly amounts of inventory when they sign up
For example, you might have to purchase $1,000 of nearly worthless products in order to become a "distributor." The person who recruited you receives $500 (a fifty percent commission) and $500 goes to the top (the company, in this case). Notice the similarity to the simple pyramid scheme
a. I have been to many legal companies, either under DSAS or MNCs. No distributor has ever earn from their downline at the first instance, which is by earning a commission by recruitment, and from the large amount of monies a new guy puts in. Most companies registration fees goes toward processing of membership only. Plus they are usually small, like two figure sum only.
b. My friend told me products are included within the entry fees, while other distributor I know told me the products are free with the entry fees. Sounds like normal MLM companies with sales products? No. MLM companies profits derived largely from revenue of sales of products. Experienced MLMers will tell you that the companies would have need its distributors to have confidence with the products to enable a sales force. But now you are absorbing products without knowing whether its good. If its part of entry fee, the company is telling you to absorb products without questions. And since by right start up fees should be small, is large amount of the $288 goes towards the products which you have no knowledge of?
If the products are free, then isnÂ’t the recruitment plan pyramid-like?
Guys, if you present this plan in front of CAD officers, good luck! Just for this portion, they could charge you with participating in pyramid. Look at S888.com, where people earns by recruitment commissions.
c. The first plan was never shown on their website. I wonder why? Unlike other companies, some or all of the agents go around presenting their binary plan of pieces of paper, proclaiming binary to be the best plan around, and always emphasising on business and recruitment. Whereas other companies would have already some form of printed media to show people their marketing plan.. So that it wasnt easy for people to catch them for evidence since they can throw the paper away? I was never shown the products nor asked to buy. This is why G.H.O.S.T says they were very focused on recruitment. Very.
Quote again
Are the company's products sold to consumers?
IF THE ANSWER IS NO (OR NOT MANY), STAY AWAY! This is a key element. Multilevel marketing (like other methods of retailing) depends on selling to consumers and establishing a market. This requires quality products, competitively priced. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, are not concerned with sales to end users of the product. Profits are made on volume sales to new recruits, who buy the products, not because they are useful or attractively priced, but because they must buy them to participate. Inventory purchases should never be more than you can realistically expect to sell or use yourself
d. The second plan shown how much you earn by sales. Initially, I thought after they finish building their network (recruitment) they would focus on sales. This is where a lot of strange things happen.
One of my friends has been working for quite some time, and is always recruiting people. He has never ask me to buy, and staunchly refuse to sell after other people approach him. Timandra and I have discussed this. She was puzzled as to why their agents could be even refuse to sell. Another contact told me another story, where they are two groups of people. Either you are recruiting all the time, or you are selling. ???
e. Where do the products go? Every month the agents pump in $50 to purchase products for 'own consumption' or resales. Two things:
the company is telling you to pump in $50 or get out of the company. If you have large network under you, if everyone pump in $50, you can earn quite a lot. Second, why the hell you need to make the effort to resell those products if you just need to pump in $50 to earn those hundred or thousands of dollars under you? Just keep them at home lah. In the end you absorbing products and accumulating them at home. This is known as maintenance requirement for membership and to earn the money from the network under you.
Quote again
Most disguised pyramids, however, are not this easy to unmask. Pyramid schemes often choose products which are cheap to produce but which have no established market value, such as new miracle products, exotic cures, etc. This makes it difficult to tell whether there is a real consumer market for the products
f. So far, are the products good? I open the topic to the floor. I was never asked to buy even though I have contacts in ntiparis. I checked up the website, hardly any info on products. They even have a statement on how nowadays health product is important in light of SARS. Aromatheraphy to cure SARS?
Plus if you examine the products, they are a) exotic b) unknown brand and unchecked source of products c) sometimes I wonder where the hell are the sales kits of these products I asked my friend for d) aromatheraphy are not largely for the mass consumer market, only select people who has the money to spend
I have covered the recruitment style and sales? of the products of the company. Watch out for more feature I have found to be fishy in this company
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anyone can compile a list of MLM companies?
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Truthfully, there are pro and cons with every marketing plan. Binary itself is not perfect, neither is it lousy.The main features of it are
Explosive growth - Less strain on recruitment
Simple? system of building network
Minimal sales
If you engage in binary, and you have less friends who are willing to join you, your upline could put people under you, giving you less strain on recruitment. People on top puts people under them or their downlines in "two by two" style. So in the end you could have explosive growth.
Usually people worry about building network in MLM. Binary allows you to put two people under you, and they each have two guys under them.Simple, less hassle
There is nothing wrong in the distributors being the end consumers of the products. Even if your customers are willing to buy products, but not doing the business, they found out that once they have people placed under them by you,(becos of binary system needing to be balanced) and they start earning money unwittingly, they could be enticed to join too.Provided they have joined as members inf irst place to enjoy maybe the discounts offered to members for the products.
Now here are the 'cons' point
You need to do balancing act with your network. Binary system says you got to have equal number of people or sales volume on both sides of your network to be entitled to enjoy compensations. If they safeguard against this by giving you time to build your network, fine. But it doesnt matter. Balancing the network is a constant worry since binary is explosive and ongoing. For novice, its a stuggle.
Pyramid can employ binary plan to withold money from you this way.
Since your upline put people under you, and their uplines put people under you, a good company should have a reliable honest system to enable people to track their network. Most of the time, you do not know the people under you, since they are your friends; friends. You cannot possibly track their sales volume or downlines manually, since you cannot "see" ,unlike other MLM plans.
Dishonest company can put up a bogus system to let you think you have many people under you, or maybe you thought this month sales wasnt good, when in reality, people under you could be selling their stuff like hotcakes......You wouldnt know.
Minimal sale? Provided the products are good and readily saleable and consumable. You wouldnt want to buy a certain amount of products every month and just keep them at home. But if you can just buy just to enable you to meet the maintenance requirement, either for membership or to reap the commissions from your downlines, why would you make the effort to sell or resell the stuff.
This can be the downfall of many MLM companies engaging in binary.
Official record was that a certain Nigerian came up with binary, and
I heard it was banned in US.Not surprising, since it is easily used by disguised pyramid to reap profits quickly and run away, putting other legal binary plan companies in jeorpadies.i heard there were even lawsuits on this.
One good thing about binary for disguised pyramid is that while its explosive, it can keep many people from knowing the company too.Sound conflicting? If I were to approach many people to put directly under me, many people would have heard of my companies. But binary is explosive for downlines too, and goes two by two, so not so many people would be approached, but you can build the network deep.Sound chim maybe for new guys, but MLMers should know what I meant.
I heard of yet another company or two employing binary system in Singapore, but since they havent create trouble as of yet, I dont think the gahmen would ban it for now.Anyway some pyramids have been running for few years now, so they havent collapse yet and create a furore. -
woah! very specific entry indeed Lawrence82, thanks for those info. well, now my friend seems like brainwashed by those ppl there and was encouraging me to take a look and listen to the talks at their company *without joining them, just listen* but as what I've read in this forum if I were to join them to listen I might get hooked by them no matter how. So I bet this company will collapse anytime... I did visit the website it seems like a "fake" web site though, recognition is not stated, products seems so "cheap" and how could they sell with that high price... what a company...
There's no free lunch in this world. Fast money? Think Twice...
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Hey guys,
I found this forum on tsinoy.com long time ago on ntiparis. Well, many of the features by some supposedly 'anti-ntiparis' guys mentioned fits in what i found out or when i have contacts with nti people.
http://tsinoy.fusionlink.com/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=8&ForumName=Biz%20Matters&Topic=3025&TopicName=Niutrend%20International&srow=31&erow=34
Its the first page of the topic.Plus here's another on NOP right here in sgforum.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=2464
Maybe later I will discuss some other suspicious features of ntiparis,nop,elixir dynamic. such their origins and strange circumstances surrounding the companies and their members.
Cheers -
Hi guys,
I have joined some online mlm watchdogs through their websites, which features articles on scams around the world.Regarding binary system, so far I can confirmed there are two companies which is Goldquest (jewelleries and stuff) and ntiparis (aromatheraphy) that are now using binary.
Here is a link to an article by Worldwide Scam Network on Goldquest.For those who have encountered ntiparis may find the features stated in the article to be familiar.
http://worldwidescam.com/goldquest.htm
Btw, under the second section of the article, it mentioned
'Since Singapore has starting cracking down on Binaries and vouchers --- GQ is probably not booming there'
Can anyone please provide me some referrals or stuff as to whether Singapore is seriously cracking down on binary plan?
Thanks -
hi laurence,
i've been reading these interesting pages in this forum for the pass days. i realised that you've been quite strong towards this nti. got that kind of feeling that you're discouraging us to this new coy.
it's not like you in the other threads where you always have a open mind towards all. keep your cool!
but you really do provide good links. thanks -
Hey ang ku kueh
really thanks for your thoughts. Well, I must apologise for sounding anti-ntiparis and seems to want to flame it. However, when you read my posts, you can see that I based my opinions on research and from contacts within ntiparis.I seriously discourage spats and slanders on this topic based on rumours and paranoia.And I only comment on companies I have encountered,like Herbalife and AMH.If you see Herbalife topics, I post references which are useful and are from public institutions, not just flaming words.Haha.
These few months I have been travelling around Singapore and looking at MLM companies. I have not only talk to leaders of these companies, but also been contacting people who have joined pyramids or commodities scam before. The participants, the promoters and few scam masters .......
Its like being thrown from a sheltered world to the dark underground.Hell, you dont even know whether your father is a scam leader, or that the watches and jewellery you bought is involved in a scam in some ways. Scary.
Well, its not paranoia.I have been researching on these so called 'MLM' companies (not the legal ones) and one of the interesting way to see whether you can be successful in this career is to see how you earn the money.If money generates from sales force, its ok, no matter how people may complain about the marketing plan, mismanagement blah blah. But if it discreetly earns from recruitment, continual investment into the company, hush hush environment, the works, welcome to the real world.
Well, for many experienced networkers, they are able to discern.But suckers and greedy people are born every minute. And some of these 'suckers' are my closest friends whom attitude has change for the worse, that it generate complaints from other close friends. It really pains, for those of you who have heart, who knew something is wrong,but is helpless.
And I still do have an open mind.
Look, Timandra just shared with us her thoughts on binary, and GHOST and Co-7 took a look at the company to verify what they heard. quantummechanic
post a thought which I think is very useful. Its on 1st December.
And I am still inviting people who has a thought or comments or info which would be very useful to us here. So far, the topic has been on intellectual discussion on ntiparis (hee hee) and have not reached a spat or namecalling.I hope to keep it that way.
Thank you guys -
Yeah! get really good advice from here!
There's no free lunch in this world. Fast Money? Think Twice...
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This is very true... I can't even help now... so i think i'll just leave my friend astray and "hope for the best"!!!
Well, for many experienced networkers, they are able to discern.But suckers and greedy people are born every minute. And some of these 'suckers' are my closest friends whom attitude has change for the worse, that it generate complaints from other close friends. It really pains, for those of you who have heart, who knew something is wrong,but is helpless.
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Hey guys
more links for those who wants to know about binary plan.It is from a neutral point of view, but the article is based on situations in US,so dont get confused.
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/binaries.html
http://www.marketwaveinc.com/articles/binaryplans.asp
Main points of the articles argue that while binary plan is legal,
they note the challenges of companies handling binary plans, and also how to discern a disguised pyramid using binary plans as tools to profit.
Talk about baseball bat which can be used to play game, as well as for a weapon!
Thats all for now
Happy reading!
Cheers