empire group alliance, ponzi scam or network marketing?
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is EGA and sunshine empire a ponzi scam or network marketing?
please evaluate.
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So is it a miraculous investment plan?
Please evaluate and explain
Don't give the lame "why should I tell u, if I did will u join" excuse. -
From what I know, it seems that there are indeed products and services, and in exchange for your loyalty and support, the company decides to give you profit sharing. Just like NTUC, if you are a member, you will be given NTUC link points. But for SE, the rebates is capped at SGD$19,200 and $96,000.Originally posted by redstone:So is it a miraculous investment plan?
Please evaluate and explain
Don't give the lame "why should I tell u, if I did will u join" excuse.
Sounds like an investment on the surface but come to think about it, it alos doesnt seem to be an investment for you are given benefits based on your loyalty and support. Which is pretty common in the world now.
Banks give you interests in return for you to put money in their bank. But well, i think SE "interest" is way too high. -
dont you feel sad that EGA dont even know what is their identity?
they are not MLM, not investment firm, not this not that..
i think they are more like ponzi scam.
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I feel its scam.Originally posted by enquiries:dont you feel sad that EGA dont even know what is their identity?
they are not MLM, not investment firm, not this not that..
i think they are more like ponzi scam. 
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if it wasnt a scam, it wouldnt have been so highly controvesial. high investments returns? i doubt there's such thing as free lunch. of cux u must work for it = recruit ppl to be under you lor.
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Well, to be on the fairer side, being so highly controvesial does not neccesarily mean that it is a scam. If you have read my previous replies in other threads. I mentioned before, this whole concept could either be a ground-greaking concept never been seen before or it could be just like any other scams.Originally posted by brokenluv:if it wasnt a scam, it wouldnt have been so highly controvesial. high investments returns? i doubt there's such thing as free lunch. of cux u must work for it = recruit ppl to be under you lor.
Difference is, this time round, this SE has created more headlines than any other companies. True enough, there is no such as free lunch but if this is a true blue MLM company, the people inside who have earned what they claimed definetely did not work for free.
Im certain that my post here could spark some flaming but Im just trying to look at things with a bigger pespective.
When we talk about entreprenuership, we are talking about venturing into the unknown. That is also why most people prefer to stay at where they are in their comfort zone. What may work or percieve to be wrong might not be the same tomorrow. No offence to some forumers, if you are sitting in front of your computer and simply joining in to pass some comments. I strongly urge you to reflect upon yourself. Firstly, who are you to judge? Secondly, does commenting/criticing make your any better? Lastly, sometimes i really wonder, did this JP guy really owe you anything? It seems like some of you really have a deep grudge against him. Think again.
Afterall, all great inventions, creations as well as people started out as non-conventional, un-realistic, impossible as well as im-practical.
To all future entrepreunuers, this could be a great business concept in the making, I truely hope that everyone will look at this concept with different points of view, not just the negative side.
p.s: Im still studying this concept. Just a point of view from a neutral fellow forumer. Cheers! -
haiz, sorry to say that but to me, u dont sound neutral at all. First of all, Are you sure this is a new concept becuz its seem so similiar to ponzi scam. Secondly, some of us may be sitting at the computer posting comments but you must also be aware, forumers here has been exposed to MLM before and had been trick, exploited, cheated, conned or uses unethical or unmoral means to cheat.
However, you must also look at the track record the JP as well. Failing in the business is very common but.....look at the number of projects he failed.... I am sure there is some dangers to it and the way he operate things....
entreprenuership is good of course, good for our country economics and so on.....BUT does jumping around and shouting: yes i love u father or shouting i wanna be a rich idiot(who dont want) improve anything other than ur day dreaming skillz. I know you going to list out all the famous people and start bull again but there is 1 thing they didnt mention. HARDWORK AND DETERMINATION the amount of work u guys does compare to the famous people is nthing and certainly not by recruiting more morons and claiming we earn this and that. Bill Gate first started Microsoft with his FIRST OS walking around showing ppl. so.... its up to u decide.
PS:sorry for the long post but hehe. oh ya....a bunch of teenagers walking around in suits doesnt help either. A view from 19years old boi
Cheers mate. -
Sometimes i really wonder why i must reply to such response. I hate to sound bias but there are some issues which you brought up which i need to question.Originally posted by xdrave:haiz, sorry to say that but to me, u dont sound neutral at all. First of all, Are you sure this is a new concept becuz its seem so similiar to ponzi scam. Secondly, some of us may be sitting at the computer posting comments but you must also be aware, forumers here has been exposed to MLM before and had been trick, exploited, cheated, conned or uses unethical or unmoral means to cheat.
However, you must also look at the track record the JP as well. Failing in the business is very common but.....look at the number of projects he failed.... I am sure there is some dangers to it and the way he operate things....
entreprenuership is good of course, good for our country economics and so on.....BUT does jumping around and shouting: yes i love u father or shouting i wanna be a rich idiot(who dont want) improve anything other than ur day dreaming skillz. I know you going to list out all the famous people and start bull again but there is 1 thing they didnt mention. HARDWORK AND DETERMINATION the amount of work u guys does compare to the famous people is nthing and certainly not by recruiting more morons and claiming we earn this and that. Bill Gate first started Microsoft with his FIRST OS walking around showing ppl. so.... its up to u decide.
PS:sorry for the long post but hehe. oh ya....a bunch of teenagers walking around in suits doesnt help either. A view from 19years old boi
Cheers mate.
Disclaimer: Now i will really be sounding like im bias.
1) Well, On the negative side, everything that involves putting money in and simply getting money out thru a not authorised way = ponzi?
On the supportive side, if you have read the news well enough, the news claimed that SE indeed have products in their E-mall as well as a product called EmCall which is worth $21,000. (which after finding out, it is actually worth 2,100 mins).
Ive known enough ponzi schemes to judge. Ponzi, in short is no products, no actual office and no physical bosses. In short, members would not have known what the company actually is doing, except getting money. Agree?
If SE's E-mall and Emcall is truely real and one of their products, would you kindly explain to me how Ponzi does it looks like?
Im really sounding Pro-SE but im sorry, im just trying to defend entreprenuership as a whole.
2) I agree that many have been cheated before, and I also agree that you have the right to warn people about scams and if im you, i would have done the same. But look, MLM as itself, does not equal to scam, MLM is just a difference way of franchising, marketing. Well, if people truely regard news and the Gov.t messages and directives as a judgement. I cant see why the Gov.t legalised MLM. Unless you are telling that their directives are flawed? If so, why bother to read up the news and browse the MAS? Agree?
3) Well, I've known some of his projects and in fact, to tell the truth, ive been involved before. Track records are impt. But haven you read up biblographies about successful people who have failed many times before they broke thru?
Just to quote, 'I am sure there is some dangers to it and the way he operate things....' Well, how sure are you? and have you work with him before? if you didnt, how do you know how he operates?
4) Well, as for the last part of your response, I find it rather irrational. By saying I love you father could be a way of showing affection to this JP guy. For a person to say that, he must have really benefitted from JP. Well, there is one chinese phrase called 'Tai Shan Yi Fen Zhong, Tai Xia Shi Nian Gong', which means, it takes ten years of effort for a minute on stage. Perhaps the hardwork and determination this guys gave cant be compared to the 'famous people' but i find it rather detesting that you said that they didnt put in any hardwork or effort?
Well, Bill Gates started with his OS system, perhaps JP started with his emall and emcall.
'a bunch of teenagers walking around in suits doesnt help either.'
I cant help but feel sorry for you, teenagers wearing suit? Which part of it is wrong? I feel sorry for you are also a teenager and yet you cant accept the fact that some other 19yr olds out striving for a better future and you, down there is undermining that young pple cant go far.
Nth to Cheer about. -
-.- there is a reason i ask u to cheer.......dont sound so angry mah u r defending ur views i defending mine....
teenegars can walk around in suits why not. i trying to point the fact that students like me going around asking people to join SE dont seem so good....unless its a good company but so far, the newspaper isnt giving credits to sunshine empire. and even so, would u feel more comfortable doing business deals with teenagers or adults. IF a teenagers wanted to strieve for a better future....at least study finish b4 considering other things. u can tell me, a cert is nothing but down the road, u can ask how many people has regretted it not studying hard. singapore is a meritocracy society. i dont wanna get into details for this.....
the quote father i love u is from the newspaper mah and i juz say my views lor. but the thing is, he gone abit too far because affection does not have to be shown in such a way. its more of like a cult status if u ask me. however, its either the editor has paraphrase , i choose to believe that this are his own words. the first impression he give me when i saw the newspaper is very bad.
I dont know SE well enough and the products they carry in the em mall and that service em call. no comment on that
of course people are allow to fail but the thing is....how they fail and if they got learn from it or not. when i mention Bill gate first started his company, i mean he went around showing people his sample and PROVE that it work. for SE....income invoice is the best evident unless....they didnt pay taxes... as for JP himself, not much about him except that infamous NOP NTI thread lor. i juz taking from there de.
defending entreprenuership and defending SE is totally diff. I support entreprenuership as you do but i juz dont think joing SE is a good idea.
however, all this are my personal views and we can juz end this arguement here ok. i dont wanna start a war in here... and i know where i am headed to for my future and not every1 is as lucky as me. -
I couldn't agree more with what xdrave says ...
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which part of teenagers walking around in suits show that they are trying to strive for a better future? many teens nowadays are easily steered by emotions and arent this how uplines recruit them? wearing of suits is a requirement in my opinion to workplace. it shows professionalism ( image ) but not necessarily being a professional in the first place. important : it is the image that sells, isnt this marketing?Originally posted by azh86:Sometimes i really wonder why i must reply to such response. I hate to sound bias but there are some issues which you brought up which i need to question.
Disclaimer: Now i will really be sounding like im bias.
1) Well, On the negative side, everything that involves putting money in and simply getting money out thru a not authorised way = ponzi?
On the supportive side, if you have read the news well enough, the news claimed that SE indeed have products in their E-mall as well as a product called EmCall which is worth $21,000. (which after finding out, it is actually worth 2,100 mins).
Ive known enough ponzi schemes to judge. Ponzi, in short is no products, no actual office and no physical bosses. In short, members would not have known what the company actually is doing, except getting money. Agree?
If SE's E-mall and Emcall is truely real and one of their products, would you kindly explain to me how Ponzi does it looks like?
Im really sounding Pro-SE but im sorry, im just trying to defend entreprenuership as a whole.
2) I agree that many have been cheated before, and I also agree that you have the right to warn people about scams and if im you, i would have done the same. But look, MLM as itself, does not equal to scam, MLM is just a difference way of franchising, marketing. Well, if people truely regard news and the Gov.t messages and directives as a judgement. I cant see why the Gov.t legalised MLM. Unless you are telling that their directives are flawed? If so, why bother to read up the news and browse the MAS? Agree?
3) Well, I've known some of his projects and in fact, to tell the truth, ive been involved before. Track records are impt. But haven you read up biblographies about successful people who have failed many times before they broke thru?
Just to quote, 'I am sure there is some dangers to it and the way he operate things....' Well, how sure are you? and have you work with him before? if you didnt, how do you know how he operates?
4) Well, as for the last part of your response, I find it rather irrational. By saying I love you father could be a way of showing affection to this JP guy. For a person to say that, he must have really benefitted from JP. Well, there is one chinese phrase called 'Tai Shan Yi Fen Zhong, Tai Xia Shi Nian Gong', which means, it takes ten years of effort for a minute on stage. Perhaps the hardwork and determination this guys gave cant be compared to the 'famous people' but i find it rather detesting that you said that they didnt put in any hardwork or effort?
Well, Bill Gates started with his OS system, perhaps JP started with his emall and emcall.
'a bunch of teenagers walking around in suits doesnt help either.'
I cant help but feel sorry for you, teenagers wearing suit? Which part of it is wrong? I feel sorry for you are also a teenager and yet you cant accept the fact that some other 19yr olds out striving for a better future and you, down there is undermining that young pple cant go far.
Nth to Cheer about.
im not going to generalise and say all teenagers all like that so im going to give my personal experience AGAIN. this ''friend'' obviously knows whats he's going to go about in the mlm company and still dare to cheat me like act blur liddat if u get what i mean.
so what if mlm is legalised. some companies only know how to cover backside. under dsas wasnt it allowed to claim back refund within 7 days? i was told that there is no refund. after much insist and help i got my money back. which part of the company ( not SE ) is being ethical and professional? So what if they wear suit? Striving for a better future through this kind of method disguits me even though many of them are around my age group.
Im not in anyway related to SE or have been related before. However, from what i have read from the many posts regarding this company, including the MAS alert list and more recently, the one about water theme park in Sarawak, i can only say time tells whether they are legitimate business or is there a bigger plot behind. -
Hmm.. Definitely sound interesting. Being Blacklisted or under investor watchlist of MAS is not a good thing. This sound serious? I don't think Mas will just anyhow blacklist some company without investigating.?
And omg, j*mes say hes better than Warrent Buffet? Hes a legend? Thats sound like some 3 year old kid saying he is a superman. I mean wake up. Warrant buffet dun go around asking people to join his company. Hes' is pure intelligent and superb analytical mind.
I dare not say MLM companies are all scam but seriously.. on the surface they potray out an image of "free lunch" earning more than those graduate, masters or even FUND MANAGER... Sounds crazy but they are convincing us so.
Singapore is a practical and realistic company. We have to work hard in order to earn. Not just going around recruiting and play mind games with one and other. :
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ponzi scam doesnt means no office no products.Originally posted by azh86:Sometimes i really wonder why i must reply to such response. I hate to sound bias but there are some issues which you brought up which i need to question.
Disclaimer: Now i will really be sounding like im bias.
1) Well, On the negative side, everything that involves putting money in and simply getting money out thru a not authorised way = ponzi?
On the supportive side, if you have read the news well enough, the news claimed that SE indeed have products in their E-mall as well as a product called EmCall which is worth $21,000. (which after finding out, it is actually worth 2,100 mins).
Ive known enough ponzi schemes to judge. Ponzi, in short is no products, no actual office and no physical bosses. In short, members would not have known what the company actually is doing, except getting money. Agree?
If SE's E-mall and Emcall is truely real and one of their products, would you kindly explain to me how Ponzi does it looks like?
Im really sounding Pro-SE but im sorry, im just trying to defend entreprenuership as a whole.
2) I agree that many have been cheated before, and I also agree that you have the right to warn people about scams and if im you, i would have done the same. But look, MLM as itself, does not equal to scam, MLM is just a difference way of franchising, marketing. Well, if people truely regard news and the Gov.t messages and directives as a judgement. I cant see why the Gov.t legalised MLM. Unless you are telling that their directives are flawed? If so, why bother to read up the news and browse the MAS? Agree?
3) Well, I've known some of his projects and in fact, to tell the truth, ive been involved before. Track records are impt. But haven you read up biblographies about successful people who have failed many times before they broke thru?
Just to quote, 'I am sure there is some dangers to it and the way he operate things....' Well, how sure are you? and have you work with him before? if you didnt, how do you know how he operates?
4) Well, as for the last part of your response, I find it rather irrational. By saying I love you father could be a way of showing affection to this JP guy. For a person to say that, he must have really benefitted from JP. Well, there is one chinese phrase called 'Tai Shan Yi Fen Zhong, Tai Xia Shi Nian Gong', which means, it takes ten years of effort for a minute on stage. Perhaps the hardwork and determination this guys gave cant be compared to the 'famous people' but i find it rather detesting that you said that they didnt put in any hardwork or effort?
Well, Bill Gates started with his OS system, perhaps JP started with his emall and emcall.
'a bunch of teenagers walking around in suits doesnt help either.'
I cant help but feel sorry for you, teenagers wearing suit? Which part of it is wrong? I feel sorry for you are also a teenager and yet you cant accept the fact that some other 19yr olds out striving for a better future and you, down there is undermining that young pple cant go far.
Nth to Cheer about.
MLM is not scam. however, sunshine empire is not MLM either. it disguised itself as MLM but actually running a ponzi scam.
emall is just a website where some unknown companies advertise their products online. sunshine empire DO NOT distribute those products listed in the website. if i'm a distributor in sunshine empire, which do i market? the website?? then what is my compensation payout for marketing the website???
you claimed to know enough ponzi scam to judge.. good for you.
however, i think you going to eat back your words for JP is definitely much more clever than you. hello.. i think when JP first played ponzi scam in singapore, i think you are just 4 YEARS OLD! -
So is the Emcom thingy a scam too?
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hmm that emcom thing in taiwan... can some1 verify weather is it still on going or MIA/AWOL cause last time got so much hype and now gone liao. hmm actually, does any of their projects is true??? i know last time emcom that thing, they send so many people over to test leh. now i dont know
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Ponzi. Did my first ponzi investment in 98? or is it 99....
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Well, I have came to conclusion with one thing. Anything which is supportive to JP or looked supportive to JP will always be criticised. Sometimes i wonder, in order to look famous in the forums, everything that i replied must definetely be either, anti-mlm, anti-JP, anti this, anti that.
Look guys, if this is the only type of answers you are looking for, i cant see why more neutral parties will be willing to voice out any comments because everything we tried to voice out, pple will always use certain analogies to drown the fact that this person, who is being targeted( in this case, JP) could actually be someone with integrity.
But ah well, i guess it cant be helped. Pple will go research what they believe in. If you think stocks and shares cant be done, you will find all documents to prove that this investments is a big time failure.
If you guys find all my comments in my previous replies rubbish, i also have nothin to say for end of the day, nothing is judged and nobody is convicted.
So why just see what the officials are going to do instead of trying to be some messiah here, saving people? If you really want to help, staying behind the com typing some comments isnt going to help. Rite?
Thus, i wish you all well in your pursuit of success in bringing down JP. I hope you all really succeed. (Afterall, you guys tried so hard) -
Well here's a REAL view from a bystander - you are obviously trying to defend SE. If anyone goes back and read your posts (in other threads as well) it is blatant that you are trying to manipulate opinions from a 'neutral' point of view, a commonly used psychological method from other MLM forumnites.Originally posted by azh86:Well, I have came to conclusion with one thing. Anything which is supportive to JP or looked supportive to JP will always be criticised. Sometimes i wonder, in order to look famous in the forums, everything that i replied must definetely be either, anti-mlm, anti-JP, anti this, anti that.
Look guys, if this is the only type of answers you are looking for, i cant see why more neutral parties will be willing to voice out any comments because everything we tried to voice out, pple will always use certain analogies to drown the fact that this person, who is being targeted( in this case, JP) could actually be someone with integrity.
But ah well, i guess it cant be helped. Pple will go research what they believe in. If you think stocks and shares cant be done, you will find all documents to prove that this investments is a big time failure.
If you guys find all my comments in my previous replies rubbish, i also have nothin to say for end of the day, nothing is judged and nobody is convicted.
So why just see what the officials are going to do instead of trying to be some messiah here, saving people? If you really want to help, staying behind the com typing some comments isnt going to help. Rite?
Thus, i wish you all well in your pursuit of success in bringing down JP. I hope you all really succeed. (Afterall, you guys tried so hard)
They will come in with a 'neutral view', suggest a few negative things and slowly work their way around to convince that, in actual fact, the 'big picture' is morally acceptable.
Unforunately for you, subtlety is not one of your strengths, and your overwhelming zeal for your company seeps through in some of your posts. Anyone can see that (unless you go back and edit them now, of course
)
Do come up with more 'neutral' perspectives that stinks of MLM analogies - very entertaining
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No one can compare to Bill Gate and Warren Buffet...why??
If u put 10k in mid 80s in Microsoft,u already can retire working now...
Buffet foresight is no doubt the greatest in the world..he made almost all his employee millionaires.Any words from them can stimulate the market like Soros...who can doubt thier awesome abilities??
To own self praising someone whose background is not so good and claim better than Buffet...what else can say about him??in 1st place,does he have a good reputation??
And where the approval of land from the authority for work to progress??
Not sure anyone heard the Alantis Island scam b4 anot
I;m on a neutral view...view things only to be proven and solid proof..paper already issue warning..so whats there not to caution of?yes even in MAS list...aint there enough to convince?think it well -
azh86,
see, no matter how u try.. no point la.
Just once awhile read these ppl's comment, it can make ppl laugh, not bad ma. Dun have to bother explaining! -
EGA leaders will receive recognition awards in the "Global Business Opportunities Forum 2007" and "Asia-Pacific Chinese Entrepreneurial Leaders Forum 2007" which will be held from 12 Nov to 15 Nov 2007.
Singapore Prime Minister, Mr. Lee Hsien Loong would be the Guest-of-Honour for the Opening Ceremony for the event.
EGA International President, Mr. James Phang would be receiving the “Outstanding & Innovative Global Entrepreneur Award”; while Empire Communications Managing Director would be receiving the “Most Potential Global Enterprise Award”.
take from http://www.sunshine-empire-holdings.com/blog/
he can win award n somemore given by our singapore Prime Minister, Mr. Lee Hsien Loong. -
Originally posted by Rigante:Well here's a REAL view from a bystander - you are obviously trying to defend SE. If anyone goes back and read your posts (in other threads as well) it is blatant that you are trying to manipulate opinions from a 'neutral' point of view, a commonly used psychological method from other MLM forumnites.
They will come in with a 'neutral view', suggest a few negative things and slowly work their way around to convince that, in actual fact, the 'big picture' is morally acceptable.
Unforunately for you, subtlety is not one of your strengths, and your overwhelming zeal for your company seeps through in some of your posts. Anyone can see that (unless you go back and edit them now, of course )
Do come up with more 'neutral' perspectives that stinks of MLM analogies - very entertaining -
1. PM Lee is only there for opening ceremony, not prize giving and nothing to do with the awardees.Originally posted by AlessandroTan:EGA leaders will receive recognition awards in the "Global Business Opportunities Forum 2007" and "Asia-Pacific Chinese Entrepreneurial Leaders Forum 2007" which will be held from 12 Nov to 15 Nov 2007.
Singapore Prime Minister, Mr. Lee Hsien Loong would be the Guest-of-Honour for the Opening Ceremony for the event.
EGA International President, Mr. James Phang would be receiving the “Outstanding & Innovative Global Entrepreneur Award”; while Empire Communications Managing Director would be receiving the “Most Potential Global Enterprise Award”.
take from http://www.sunshine-empire-holdings.com/blog/
he can win award n somemore given by our singapore Prime Minister, Mr. Lee Hsien Loong.
2. This is a bluff, posted by their own SE supporter to divert attention from recently scam publicity.
3. The organiser for the awards are just small private association and if you "donate" $$$$ , you got your awards. -
And hor, a search on google turn up nothing leh, and that forum look so...chinese(no descrimination) cuz its all focus on china and there is no publicity about it at all...unless they tell me Private Event and by invitation only.