CAD officially investigates NTI and EGA
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say what again?Originally posted by christopher_rf:if he shows u a 500k or even a 1 million annual income,
you will say its fake what, he can just pay the tax... must he show u his bank account statement?
you are just pulling them into another trap...
if he earns and pay the tax, whats the issue?
who is talking about bank account?
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ya i agree...juz plae along wif it lorx...dun put life saving can liao le...but wad makes u so sure is a ponzi scheme..? i mean from what i noe things whihc are new introduce to the world are almost refer as scheme..? juz lke how insurance started..?
BTW...Does Everyone delacre their income tax according to their monthly income...Doesn't anyone wanna evade some..? Who are so honest please reply... wanna noe how many GOOD singaporeans are there... -
meaning dont have that kind of income to declare to, right? if people wont be honest to declare they evade taxes, meaning they do declare taxes, so if cannot produce means dont have that kind of income right?Originally posted by R_teo82:ya i agree...juz plae along wif it lorx...dun put life saving can liao le...but wad makes u so sure is a ponzi scheme..? i mean from what i noe things whihc are new introduce to the world are almost refer as scheme..? juz lke how insurance started..?
BTW...Does Everyone delacre their income tax according to their monthly income...Doesn't anyone wanna evade some..? Who are so honest please reply... wanna noe how many GOOD singaporeans are there...
scheme is a generic word
insurance schemes, MLM schemes, investment schemes
how does all these relate to ponzi and insurance?
why your post like not here not there one? -
Whats with declaring income? Something so subjective do not mean the scheme is a scam or not. Evade taxes all you want. For 1, I will not. The lure of cold hard cash is always hard to resist, is that not so? Else why need to show cheque? To prove you really can get money from the scheme?
But everyone is avoiding the main issues here. Why is there not a standard method of prospecting? Why is everyone having different versions? Why are companies' names being misused? Why are there conflicting explanations? -
If you read the usual advisories given by DSA from various countries (i will avoid being the expert here by quoting myself), one of the advice is to ask for proof of income (in form of tax declaration) before joining a MLM scheme. Its not a subjective issue. In the first place, why should a distributor promoting a clean scheme be evasive about proving his income? Is there a very solid reason not to do so?Originally posted by mrleech:Whats with declaring income? Something so subjective do not mean the scheme is a scam or not. Evade taxes all you want. For 1, I will not. The lure of cold hard cash is always hard to resist, is that not so? Else why need to show cheque? To prove you really can get money from the scheme?
But everyone is avoiding the main issues here. Why is there not a standard method of prospecting? Why is everyone having different versions? Why are companies' names being misused? Why are there conflicting explanations?
So far the various answers given have been disappointing, and like you said, even conflicting. One chap insinuates that its a practice to evade taxes, one said even a tax income statement can be questioned, and one asked whether its possible to fake account statement from company.
None so far provided a very coherent consistent view, and some totally evade the issues by making incoherent posts.
This issue is very simple. Its either some people have been evading declaring income, or simply there is no income to declare to.
And also, this was not the main issue also. I believe they have conveniently forgotten your earlier posts two three pages ago -
I decided not to listen to any of them. Cos eventually they are just independent affiliates (stated so in their T&C as of today). So I guess we cant really trust their words.
Best is to attend their Business Introduction Program (think its called that). That should be considered the "actual" presentation. -
They have showed you their income with the income report that can be generated by clicking on a button in the system that they have posted here, stop asking for tax, i feel its getting more and more childish, I for one, will not be so stupid as to post my income tax statement online.
Go to a club you show them your IC, than they ask to check your thumbprint and birthcert,
this is the feeling we are all getting.
don't you see laurence, end of the day its not the income that matters, its whether the customers will get their money back with their rebates.
I believe you have no idea what sunshine is doing, you just reading online and nothing to do at home post some comments, please go find out more and post your comments. A trip down to sunshine will clarify all your doubts instead of just whimpering alone at home with your posts (Do not worry that the people there will condamn you because of your posts, in fact 99% of them have never ever visited sgforums and they can't be bothered)
my replies will not be as prompt at you, as i do not have the time to post 100 posts a day like you have. No offence dude!
and please do not use the "but mlm blah blah has to show their income proof"
i would use "since its a ponzi and scam like you say, why is it still standing since emcom started 1 year ago?" (and you would, "please read the previous posts")
and i would paste my previous post again
NO END you see!
I do not want to use the same tatic as you are using -
means got no ans but simply evading by attacking my character or questioning what i am doing lah?
law requires company to show income distributions, people can suka suka said company has no duty to show
usually advice is for people to show proof of income, preferably through income tax statement, any good direct selling advice or mlm advisory would tell you that
nowadays, people can suka suka say they earn xxx amt but no balls to prove it
even post this issue also same thing, evade issue but prefer to focus on me instead
ad hominem argument is always present
sigh -
You so sure the independent affiliates bother about the law?
Then again, remember that they are independent affiliates. They do not represent the company. What they say hold no weight at all. -
Precisely, meaning they can very well be lying and can get away with itOriginally posted by mrleech:You so sure the independent affiliates bother about the law?
Then again, remember that they are independent affiliates. They do not represent the company. What they say hold no weight at all.
Sigh -
They have already shown you proof of income, didn't someone paste his income generated from the company's internet system?Originally posted by laurence82:means got no ans but simply evading by attacking my character or questioning what i am doing lah?
law requires company to show income distributions, people can suka suka said company has no duty to show
usually advice is for people to show proof of income, preferably through income tax statement, any good direct selling advice or mlm advisory would tell you that
nowadays, people can suka suka say they earn xxx amt but no balls to prove it
even post this issue also same thing, evade issue but prefer to focus on me instead
ad hominem argument is always present
sigh
"preferbly through income tax statement"
You are the one evading issues -
What evasion of issue?
All along we were talking about tax income statement, why u suddenly talk about company generated forms? -
All along we were talking about their income, why did you ask for income tax and more? The company's internet systen can generate a report on how much you earn daily, monthly year for that certain account. Why do you still ask for income tax? You are the one that stated "preferbly income tax"Originally posted by laurence82:What evasion of issue?
All along we were talking about tax income statement, why u suddenly talk about company generated forms?
Why? -
Means you never read the posts all along, thats whyOriginally posted by christopher_rf:All along we were talking about their income, why did you ask for income tax and more? The company's internet systen can generate a report on how much you earn daily, monthly year for that certain account. Why do you still ask for income tax? You are the one that stated "preferbly income tax"
Why?
Income tax statement is preferable because its checked and authenticated by a third party, and that third party (ie the government) has an interest to make sure you declare all your damn income
Thats why that has been proposed as the best choice
Rather than from a company which has an interest in marketing their 'high income returns' and at the same time 'prove' the income at their own will. Thats why we been talking about conflict of interest, from distributors to income tax declarations.
Why you think in the business world, companies accounts, especially large public listed ones, are audited by external auditors and presented to ACRA, not audited by internal accountants? You cant be declaring your income and paying income taxes at your own free will! -
there you go again..
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of course there i go again
coz no agent whatsoever could dispute this fact
third party authentication....in our everyday lives even, even when we sign up for sgforums account, we go through authentication process so that nobody else abuses our email address
we get audited by third party, whether we ask for credit loans or submit reports to ACRA
and i cant believe now you telling me you can say whatever you want and prove by your ownself whatever you want?
i dont know why everyday people give me this kind of bullcrap -
The company is the third party? You need sales to place into the system to generate your income.
Stop crapping.. -
siaoOriginally posted by christopher_rf:The company is the third party? You need sales to place into the system to generate your income.
Stop crapping..
since when the company is a third party?
how can a single entity, registered as a single entity, become two entities, and audit itself?
how can sales dept become one business entity and system administrators become second business entity?
and how can SE's LOB suddenly become auditing as well as having the authority of a government?
its like saying christopher is two persons because he got left hand and right hand -
err, i need to add (seriously and objectively)
i dont know about your other posts, but by your last post you are pwning yourself, no kidding here
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no you just pwned yourself, are you stating that the company fakes the income of its distributors?
hmmm...
Now you got pwned -
nopeOriginally posted by christopher_rf:no you just pwned yourself, are you stating that the company fakes the income of its distributors?
hmmm...
Now you got pwned
possibility is companies can fake since they have an interest in doing so
thats why a third party authentication is needed, thats what we have been discussing all along
by pwning yourself, i meant that part when you said a company can be the third party
if you dont believe, you go try set up your own company and try telling ACRA and everyone else you will be your own auditor, licenser and all that coz you can be the 'third party'
i dont know whether they laugh first or kick you into jail first -
Its impossible to convince me and impossible for me to convince you.
Let time be the answer, NTI has lasted 4 years, Sunshine has lasted almost a year with emcom,
How long more before they will fall? you and fellow critics predicted end 2004, mid 2005, end 2005, 1st quarter 2006, mid 2006, end 2006 and 1st quarter 2007,
When is your next prediction?
Don't bother to say that i'm straying from the topic, as i have already stated that Its impossible to convince me and impossible for me to convince you. -
Its not very hardOriginally posted by christopher_rf:Its impossible to convince me and impossible for me to convince you.
Let time be the answer, NTI has lasted 4 years, Sunshine has lasted almost a year with emcom,
How long more before they will fall? you and fellow critics predicted end 2004, mid 2005, end 2005, 1st quarter 2006, mid 2006, end 2006 and 1st quarter 2007,
When is your next prediction?
Don't bother to say that i'm straying from the topic, as i have already stated that Its impossible to convince me and impossible for me to convince you.
Benchmark been laid
Things like income tax statement requirement has been there, advisories given by MLM websites and DSA all over the world also use this as benchmark, among other things
These are not my benchmark, I dont invent them, so what is so hard to convince?
You couldnt come up with even the most basic argument and now you talking about cant convince anyone? Many of these things I told you, go out to the real business world and try them, and i dont mean that pseudo business world James Phang been laying you guys in. Go and tell them things like, a company can authenticate and audit and prove its own income and profits, a company can be a 'third party', a revenue statement is authenticated because sales team and system administrators are separate group of people. Just go ahead and tell businessman and professionals like lawyers, auditors, bankers all that stuff you told me. See they got laugh or not.
Of course it wont collapse. Just like Astral Mag changed to Enyouth, NTI has been evolving, so my question is, which scheme has lasted long and benefit a significant number of people? Go look for the thread by Telescope where he listed all the schemes that has come and gone? It reminds me of Astral Mag last time, three frigging years at the time i went, only between 13 and 16 top distributors, and high turnover rate at the lower end.
Sheesh, boss survives and make it big, downlines suffer and change, and they still havent see the light
Tsk -
So far i have seen most downlines in sunshine making money, because of the project, of cause there will be people who can't make it, you don't expect eveyrone to succeed eh?Originally posted by laurence82:Its not very hard
Benchmark been laid
Things like income tax statement requirement has been there, advisories given by MLM websites and DSA all over the world also use this as benchmark, among other things
These are not my benchmark, I dont invent them, so what is so hard to convince?
You couldnt come up with even the most basic argument and now you talking about cant convince anyone? Many of these things I told you, go out to the real business world and try them, and i dont mean that pseudo business world James Phang been laying you guys in. Go and tell them things like, a company can authenticate and audit and prove its own income and profits, a company can be a 'third party', a revenue statement is authenticated because sales team and system administrators are separate group of people. Just go ahead and tell businessman and professionals like lawyers, auditors, bankers all that stuff you told me. See they got laugh or not.
Of course it wont collapse. Just like Astral Mag changed to Enyouth, NTI has been evolving, so my question is, which scheme has lasted long and benefit a significant number of people? Go look for the thread by Telescope where he listed all the schemes that has come and gone? It reminds me of Astral Mag last time, three frigging years at the time i went, only between 13 and 16 top distributors, and high turnover rate at the lower end.
Sheesh, boss survives and make it big, downlines suffer and change, and they still havent see the light
Tsk
And I know how much income tax some of the top distributors have submitted,
Perhaps you shold make trip to see lah, but from your tone of your posts, you are 101% prejudice againts all mlm company except amway,
I don't see whats so hard to make a trip down eh..
hmm
Macdonalds in toapayoh makes a lot of money, workers only get paid $2.8/hr too little 2-3 months they give up, Sheesh, boss survives and make it big, workers suffer and change, and they still havent see the light?
Cmon.. and what makes you think the distributors ain't making much money, i dare guarrentee the amount of agents bigger than your family tree and younger than you have made money in a month you could have never made in a year.
And oh yes they have income tax, meet them and ask for it!
but i don't see any point since you only want to post 100 posts on sgforums daily,
don't bother -
somehow you are diverging away from topic, and your arguments are superbly leakyOriginally posted by christopher_rf:So far i have seen most downlines in sunshine making money, because of the project, of cause there will be people who can't make it, you don't expect eveyrone to succeed eh?
And I know how much income tax some of the top distributors have submitted,
Perhaps you shold make trip to see lah, but from your tone of your posts, you are 101% prejudice againts all mlm company except amway,
I don't see whats so hard to make a trip down eh..
hmm
Macdonalds in toapayoh makes a lot of money, workers only get paid $2.8/hr too little 2-3 months they give up, Sheesh, boss survives and make it big, workers suffer and change, and they still havent see the light?
Cmon.. and what makes you think the distributors ain't making much money, i dare guarrentee the amount of agents bigger than your family tree and younger than you have made money in a month you could have never made in a year.
And oh yes they have income tax, meet them and ask for it!
but i don't see any point since you only want to post 100 posts on sgforums daily,
don't bother
at least the macdonalds crew has know what they expect to get, rather than been promised or enticed to join a scheme where the uplines refused to prove their income or returns, or that a significant number never get what they thought they would get..strangely the top few distributors..always have been that few..where are others?
you know, you told others, but for the nth time, only you have the interest to tell people your company is earning a lot, therefore you have the duty and responsibility to prove it, or that your uplines or top distributors prove it, we have been discussing this for many posts, yet you could not come up with one valid reason why, and resorting to diverging to other issues
they are earning more than my family tree, whatever that means, so the best solution is to prove it. why for so many posts you keep avoiding it? scared of what?
you say i only did not flame amway..but there were nuskin, elken, belair topics as well
prove to me which one of these three, for example, i have flamed? and i know i havent, so it also means i am a elken, nuskin, belair distributor?
since you accuse me of such, i will not let you off till you have proven that i only did not flame amway
dont have proof means dont have proof, it has no link whatsover to the number of posts i made in a day or a year, to me, thats an excuse
i guess the only reason why people flame me is because they cant come up with even a single solid reason for things they do right?