CAD officially investigates NTI and EGA
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US$25 registration = no need for explanation, maintaining a database server is not free.Originally posted by mrleech:Till date, no one is explaining or trying to rebutt. Instead, they are harping on various issues that may be subjective.
For Fact 4, I would need to clarify. US$150 as BM + US$25 for registration fee. Do explain the facts that I find strange. Why must SE work in such a manner? How will the public react knowing of such uncommon practices?
US$150 Bronze Merchant = Purchases 3 standard accounts for referral-commission purposes, plus an option (yes they have a non-specific value) to purchase Partners, plus 300 Mall Points which you may use to purchase an Emcall callback package or other products listed on the Emall platform. The 3 accounts when used to earn commission are all part of the binary plan of MLM. -
To date, nobody tried to.Originally posted by mrleech:Till date, no one is explaining or trying to rebutt. Instead, they are harping on various issues that may be subjective.
For Fact 4, I would need to clarify. US$150 as BM + US$25 for registration fee. Do explain the facts that I find strange. Why must SE work in such a manner? How will the public react knowing of such uncommon practices?
Most of the people have laid the issues and points, but they were never answered. I remember clearly saying this to the likes of Ms Prickly Heat and i-love-nti and the whole lot, and two years later people still note the same thing
Not only that, they only like to flame or provide meek arguments that never clearly answer the points. -
You are confusing me. If at the end of the day you still think its not plausible to convince me, or rather the group as you say, and that admit you couldnt do much to answer the questions, you are not spokesman, in fact you are not direct representative of the company, then my question here is, what is the purpose you posting here, be challenged, and in the end going in circle without purpose?Originally posted by Procter:No matter what outsiders perception of how the company handles its affairs, things will still go on.
1 group will say, i'm not interested in what your company problems are. I just want to see how your company reacts and deals with them.
The other group will say, i'm not interested in anything else you talk about your company, as long as what i'm promised is given to me.
Company will still grow that way.
Different people have different ideas, company's idea as what it has shown so far is to find ways and means to conform to as acceptable a way as possible for everybody. However it cannot cater to every outsider's needs vis à vis. Answers, solutions and results don't just show up right after a feedback. So no matter whether any group of dissidents care to give a company time to prove itself, neither can the company care too much to ensure that every single person sees answers to their liking. Why have people joined SE and are still joining it? That is because signing up is within their level of acceptance as they accepted what the company has shown them so far.
I'm not a designated company relations spokesman, i cannot directly answer u company's Solution A to Question A, Solution B to Question B. All i have been saying, however philosophical it sounds, is simply the company's direction for the past months. That is what i can offer right here. If answer's not accepted, then i apologise for what you perceive to be rambling. A company can have its pros and cons. It might have an excellent product but a poor system, or an excellent system but poor management. But that does not necessarily mean the company sales will slow down or that it does not have the right to carry on.
Second, if you're talking about inputting resources to gain something, what about paying $1 for a bar of KitKat? If retail is also an investment scheme, then there's no need for further discussion for this part of the topic.
Wireless project is a CAPITAL investment by the company, not consumers. Simply because when anyone forks out $ and signs the form in SE, they receive products and services in return. That is consumption. A direct investment would be something in which you pay the money and get nothing but returns. Unless a gimmick is thrown in, of course. Singtel has Red Rewards, Shell has Escape Points, these are all extra benefits, just like SE's Customer Reward Programmes and Customer Loyalty Programmes.
Regarding proof of income, i'll be quartered by my colleagues if i ask them all to give me a copy of their income taxes when it comes out, since they will berate me for bothering to discourse on company issues with a forum group instead of doing more constructive activities directly beneficial to my network's expansion. As an individual, i will say again that i can only show my income tax once its out this year. I haven't even mentioned my own income anyway.
Peace out..
p.s. mhcampboy >> Join SE? You can pm christopher_rf or me, although it sounds a bit incredulous that someone in this forum would say something like this.
p.p.s. Herzog_Zwei >> i know. i love bananas too
As for your definition of investment, you are confusing yourself. EMCOM has a wireless project in Taiwan, do Singaporean investors receive wireless network from a project infrastructure built in Taiwan, therefore now they are called consumers? Ridiculous right? And we know they are not anyway. And why you can talk about monetary income of your uplines, why SE investors can come boast about their returns, and at the same time, you talk about Shell Points which is a reward for using their services and is non monetary in nature? Refer to past posts by your own agents, where they even talk about investors receiving a cut of the profits.
Clearly, you are confused between capital investments and dividends, and rewards points given to consumers for using their services.
As for your last point, unless you are justifying your uplines income or marketing your company's investment schemes online, you have no reason of course to ask your uplines for their own personal income tax statement and bringing it into the forum. Therefore, since you are not doing it, i believe you have no reason or basis to say that SE top distributors earn a lot. -
Let's go through this again, as simple as possible.
1. I'm not here to convince you. Never said i was.
2. I'm here to provide just that little bit more insight into the company, albeit from my own point of view which i try to make as objective as possible.
3. If anyone challenges the company's practices, i might or might not be inclined to directly answer that. For those i don't answer directly, i merely commented, which i believe the forum allows.
4. Let's clear the confusion here. The company, having been aware earlier this year that agents were marketing Partnerships as a 'investment scheme' launched a memo to educate the agents that it is NOT an investment and the benefits are NOT investment dividends. If you wish i can get a copy of the memo for you. What you pay for when signing up for SE Partnerships is membership plus EmCom's local product, Emcall (which i'm using personally now), and purchase of Mall Points which can be used to redeem products under Emall's product range. That is the product and service which i mentioned.
5. Monetary income by agents is based on commission plan for referrals. SE Partners' returns is based on the Customer Rebate Plan and Customer Loyalty plan which is not linked to the commission plan at all.
6. I did not say that our top distributors are earning a lot, unless you're referring to this statement of mine :
Anyway, this forum is likely to stay in ad hominem stasis because except for the odd interest, very few distributors from SE who are earning big bucks, getting their income taxes and cars will be bothered to come down and put in their two cents' worth.
In that case, feel free to disregard it as i have no interest to brag about top performers in the company. As i mentioned, i rather represent myself. -
1. So your purpose in quoting and reply my posts, explaining about your company's actions, about how your company management cannot be so perfect etc etc is.....? You are humouring me right?Originally posted by Procter:Let's go through this again, as simple as possible.
1. I'm not here to convince you. Never said i was.
2. I'm here to provide just that little bit more insight into the company, albeit from my own point of view which i try to make as objective as possible.
3. If anyone challenges the company's practices, i might or might not be inclined to directly answer that. For those i don't answer directly, i merely commented, which i believe the forum allows.
4. Let's clear the confusion here. The company, having been aware earlier this year that agents were marketing Partnerships as a 'investment scheme' launched a memo to educate the agents that it is NOT an investment and the benefits are NOT investment dividends. If you wish i can get a copy of the memo for you. What you pay for when signing up for SE Partnerships is membership plus EmCom's local product, Emcall (which i'm using personally now), and purchase of Mall Points which can be used to redeem products under Emall's product range. That is the product and service which i mentioned.
5. Monetary income by agents is based on commission plan for referrals. SE Partners' returns is based on the Customer Rebate Plan and Customer Loyalty plan which is not linked to the commission plan at all.
6. I did not say that our top distributors are earning a lot, unless you're referring to this statement of mine :
Anyway, this forum is likely to stay in ad hominem stasis because except for the odd interest, very few distributors from SE who are earning big bucks, getting their income taxes and cars will be bothered to come down and put in their two cents' worth.
In that case, feel free to disregard it as i have no interest to brag about top performers in the company. As i mentioned, i rather represent myself.
2. Which is also about defending your company's position...see point 1
3. Which you are not stopped from commenting, but challenged and asked why...
4. I cant believe how many times your company want to change the scheme..first its an investment into the wireless project in Taiwan, even stated on company website, then now its mail points and rewards for services used. And mail points generate returns in monetary terms?
Clearly, you are confusing yourself, or the rest of us here. How can earning rewards points and earning large income be put into the same sentence? Mean actually no one in SE is earning significant amount of income at all? Its non existent? So why agents are so uptight? Since its like a Pepsi lover flaming Coke, but why should people who drink Coke really cares? Since they only pay Coke and get their drinks thats all, get a bit of rewards, but they are not getting income from Coke, so they need not care if Pepsi lovers are flaming Coke.
5. Again, monetary income...need i say more?
6. Actually it wont be on ad hominem basis if you and your fellow agents could simply answer the questions and issues directly and clearly. I am very disatisified with the way you answer about investment scheme, if a little on excess i would say you are playing around with words.
Again, i see no point saying its on ad hominem basis just because your top distributors refuse to 'share' proof of their earnings. A very twisted argument to put forward, dont you think? So now your top distributors are god and anyone who say anything else are putting forth ad hominem arguments? Dont make me say 'sheesh' please. -
I think your last sentence sums up everything. You are an independent affiliate. You can and only be able to represent yourself. Thus I think there is not much that can be said.Originally posted by Procter:Let's go through this again, as simple as possible.
1. I'm not here to convince you. Never said i was.
2. I'm here to provide just that little bit more insight into the company, albeit from my own point of view which i try to make as objective as possible.
3. If anyone challenges the company's practices, i might or might not be inclined to directly answer that. For those i don't answer directly, i merely commented, which i believe the forum allows.
4. Let's clear the confusion here. The company, having been aware earlier this year that agents were marketing Partnerships as a 'investment scheme' launched a memo to educate the agents that it is NOT an investment and the benefits are NOT investment dividends. If you wish i can get a copy of the memo for you. What you pay for when signing up for SE Partnerships is membership plus EmCom's local product, Emcall (which i'm using personally now), and purchase of Mall Points which can be used to redeem products under Emall's product range. That is the product and service which i mentioned.
5. Monetary income by agents is based on commission plan for referrals. SE Partners' returns is based on the Customer Rebate Plan and Customer Loyalty plan which is not linked to the commission plan at all.
6. I did not say that our top distributors are earning a lot, unless you're referring to this statement of mine :
Anyway, this forum is likely to stay in ad hominem stasis because except for the odd interest, very few distributors from SE who are earning big bucks, getting their income taxes and cars will be bothered to come down and put in their two cents' worth.
In that case, feel free to disregard it as i have no interest to brag about top performers in the company. As i mentioned, i rather represent myself. -
The issue is getting more and more far'fetch, Can i request our banana guy to post facts and maybe even figures why it won't work,
Don't bother ask for the income slip, they won't be that stupid,
Please state your fax with maybe pictures scan some documents and post online.. thanks
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The USD 150 is for purchasing 300 Mall points to purchase products one the E-mall or perhaps a package for Emcall.Originally posted by mrleech:Till date, no one is explaining or trying to rebutt. Instead, they are harping on various issues that may be subjective.
For Fact 4, I would need to clarify. US$150 as BM + US$25 for registration fee. Do explain the facts that I find strange. Why must SE work in such a manner? How will the public react knowing of such uncommon practices?
By purchasing this mall points, the companies offers you 3 biz centers from which you can get referal fees when refering customers or rebate when ever you do a repeat sales -
What facts to post? What thing dont work? You havent been answering my questions and you are avoiding the issues. In the end, if you guys have no income to boast of, please say so. Just say SE agents arent earning and they have nothing to show they are earning.Originally posted by christopher_rf:The issue is getting more and more far'fetch, Can i request our banana guy to post facts and maybe even figures why it won't work,
Don't bother ask for the income slip, they won't be that stupid,
Please state your fax with maybe pictures scan some documents and post online.. thanks
Like i said for the nth time, if you dare boast your income, or your uplines income, you will have to be challenged to provide such evidences. Please do not use dirty tricks like asking me to prove (and i dont know what is it you want me to prove) when you have been challenged to prove something you said or boast about. In the first place, what have i boasted here that need proving?
Typical SE agents behaviour. I mean, are you guys seriously not earning anything that you will do anything not to show it?
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Guys, pls add on to the scheme that has failed - the Emcom wireless projectOriginally posted by christopher_rf:The USD 150 is for purchasing 300 Mall points to purchase products one the E-mall or perhaps a package for Emcall.
By purchasing this mall points, the companies offers you 3 biz centers from which you can get referal fees when refering customers or rebate when ever you do a repeat sales
Obviously, an investment into a wireless project has now changed to a mail points schemes
Sigh, yet another failure, and someone ask me to give the scheme hope, when now they are saying the old scheme no longer exist -
Please do not act like an ignorant fool as i believe you are not one.Originally posted by laurence82:What facts to post? What thing dont work? You havent been answering my questions and you are avoiding the issues. In the end, if you guys have no income to boast of, please say so. Just say SE agents arent earning and they have nothing to show they are earning.
Like i said for the nth time, if you dare boast your income, or your uplines income, you will have to be challenged to provide such evidences. Please do not use dirty tricks like asking me to prove (and i dont know what is it you want me to prove) when you have been challenged to prove something you said or boast about. In the first place, what have i boasted here that need proving?
Typical SE agents behaviour. I mean, are you guys seriously not earning anything that you will do anything not to show it?
Guys, pls add on to the scheme that has failed - the Emcom wireless project
Obviously, an investment into a wireless project has now changed to a mail points schemes
Sigh, yet another failure, and someone ask me to give the scheme hope, when now they are saying the old scheme no longer exist
It is by purchasing 12k mall points than do you get to join in the customer rebate plan.
Please get your facts right, you have so much time to type rubbish on other forums, why not spend some time to know how to thing works. EG. You have to open BM or SM than you can open a Gold partner to join the Customer rebate plan.
The plan is not as simple as you think, Even someone who has a high IQ would need time to digest it, What makes you think numbskulls will understand just by reading in the forum.
Agents have posted their incomes online, but now you want to dig into their personal items, like income slip? C'mon all his details will be there.. are you blind or too stupid to understand that... OMG
Damn I am really wasting my time typing to someone who only sees from the outside and don't bother to find out the details..
I hope you will get your facts right before posting crap on the forum..
If you dare to Boast you know so much and say its a scam.. You will also be challenged to uploads documents that proves its a scam, Please stop using dirty tricks like asking them to post their personal things online,
Why don't you scan your birth cert and IC and post online so we know you are not from another mlm company? <---(I hope this sounds absurd so you know how WE all FEEL)
Typical Laurence82 behaviour. I mean, are you seriously just typing crap online with no edvidence just speculations and that you will do anything not to show it?
Or conjure another excuse with all the therioes you can come up with.
Show PROOF
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I am not interested in whether a fool or someone with low intelligence can decipher your company's scheme, especially when you cant even tell me what is the plan as opposed to the ones that have been contradicted. Half a year ago, a whole bunch of SE agents talked about an wireless project in Taiwan in which they invested and hopefully will gain an income. Half a year later, another bunch of SE agents came in and claim what have been said half a year ago is rubbish and now claiming its a mail points rewards scheme. Am i expecting, by Christmas time, another bunch of SE agents will come in and say the mail points reward scheme is rubbish and non existent?Originally posted by christopher_rf:Please do not act like an ignorant fool as i believe you are not one.
It is by purchasing 12k mall points than do you get to join in the customer rebate plan.
Please get your facts right, you have so much time to type rubbish on other forums, why not spend some time to know how to thing works. EG. You have to open BM or SM than you can open a Gold partner to join the Customer rebate plan.
The plan is not as simple as you think, Even someone who has a high IQ would need time to digest it, What makes you think numbskulls will understand just by reading in the forum.
Agents have posted their incomes online, but now you want to dig into their personal items, like income slip? C'mon all his details will be there.. are you blind or too stupid to understand that... OMG
Damn I am really wasting my time typing to someone who only sees from the outside and don't bother to find out the details..
I hope you will get your facts right before posting crap on the forum..
If you dare to Boast you know so much and say its a scam.. You will also be challenged to uploads documents that proves its a scam, Please stop using dirty tricks like asking them to post their personal things online,
Why don't you scan your birth cert and IC and post online so we know you are not from another mlm company? <---(I hope this sounds absurd so you know how WE all FEEL)
Typical Laurence82 behaviour. I mean, are you seriously just typing crap online with no edvidence just speculations and that you will do anything not to show it?
Or conjure another excuse with all the therioes you can come up with.
Show PROOF
Or simply, you guys dont have a clue what your company is doing?
Again, i will repeat my points which you have not challenged. Anyone who dare come online to boast about his, his uplines income, or his company's earnings, and is challenged, must be ready and have duty to provide evidences.
You totally miscontrued the whole idea and keep talking about simply demanding you people to post personal details online. If you guys have not boasted about your income, why would people ask you to prove it?
Do you mean to say, SE agents are gods and cannot be challenged? Everything they say must be true and correct? If you admit this point, i got nothing to say
i just dont like the way you twisted the whole ideas which have been repeated so many times into a) posting personal details online b)me showing my details online..am i the one boasting, am i the one claiming? No what, its you guys what....
Everytime you always ignore that part about you guys boasting about your income and refusing to prove it, instead, twisting it into something about posting personal details online.
I understand if its simply you guys are shy to post details online, but why keep evading my posts about you guys boasting but dont dare to show it? Why? I repeat for two pages liao, but you still evade? WHy? -
You don't have a clue of what you're posting and what we're writing,Originally posted by laurence82:I am not interested in whether a fool or someone with low intelligence can decipher your company's scheme, especially when you cant even tell me what is the plan as opposed to the ones that have been contradicted. Half a year ago, a whole bunch of SE agents talked about an wireless project in Taiwan in which they invested and hopefully will gain an income. Half a year later, another bunch of SE agents came in and claim what have been said half a year ago is rubbish and now claiming its a mail points rewards scheme. Am i expecting, by Christmas time, another bunch of SE agents will come in and say the mail points reward scheme is rubbish and non existent?
Or simply, you guys dont have a clue what your company is doing?
Again, i will repeat my points which you have not challenged. Anyone who dare come online to boast about his, his uplines income, or his company's earnings, and is challenged, must be ready and have duty to provide evidences.
You totally miscontrued the whole idea and keep talking about simply demanding you people to post personal details online. If you guys have not boasted about your income, why would people ask you to prove it?
Do you mean to say, SE agents are gods and cannot be challenged? Everything they say must be true and correct? If you admit this point, i got nothing to say
i just dont like the way you twisted the whole ideas which have been repeated so many times into a) posting personal details online b)me showing my details online..am i the one boasting, am i the one claiming? No what, its you guys what....
Everytime you always ignore that part about you guys boasting about your income and refusing to prove it, instead, twisting it into something about posting personal details online.
I understand if its simply you guys are shy to post details online, but why keep evading my posts about you guys boasting but dont dare to show it? Why? I repeat for two pages liao, but you still evade? WHy?
We have shown income proof already, but you want to see the personal stuff..
The top earners even if they don't mind, won't be as free to come online here and do such a stupid thing,
You have been evading for 4 years on to why we will fail...
PLEASE SHOW FACTS AND PASTE ONLINE why SE will fail...
End of the day you have been posting why we haven't fail,
Cmon Boy, Find more excuses on why we won't fail than...
You are claiming we are scam and we will fall... Why haven't we..
Please post facts.. We have shown income statements already.. Stop the childish act -
Again, like mentioned before, a income tax statement is always a good verified document that be wholly authenticated by a third party, you never challenge this point, merely uttering rubbish like not showing your personal details online, third party can be the company itselfOriginally posted by christopher_rf:You don't have a clue of what you're posting and what we're writing,
We have shown income proof already, but you want to see the personal stuff..
The top earners even if they don't mind, won't be as free to come online here and do such a stupid thing,
You have been evading for 4 years on to why we will fail...
PLEASE SHOW FACTS AND PASTE ONLINE why SE will fail...
End of the day you have been posting why we haven't fail,
Cmon Boy, Find more excuses on why we won't fail than...
You are claiming we are scam and we will fall... Why haven't we..
Please post facts.. We have shown income statements already.. Stop the childish act
Then let me ask you
a) Are you expecting us to keep quiet when you boast about your income, your uplines income and your company earnings, and need not show proof? Just answer yes or no
b) After you finish your PSLE, O level, A level, or poly exam paper, can you grade your own paper and give your ownself marks? Yes or no? Can you say you score good marks but its you yourself mark your own paper, but not a third party like the Cambridge or MOE? Yes or not
Frigging easy issue and question, yet you keep avoiding what i said and come up with your own points which is irrelevant. Stop evading the issues. Just answer yes or not will do, since its so hard for you to read points. -
And procter, if you are reading this, this is exactly what i meant when idiots in your company can ruin their company image to a great significance.
For the past three four years, they evaded the issues, avoid answering the questions and choose to evade or come up with totally different points when the groundwork or framework of issues have been laid.
You said the company took actions, but it seems it come to naught, or actually it didnt happened. Nobody in company seems to care what they say is right or rubbish, right? -
sidetracking a lot...Originally posted by laurence82:And procter, if you are reading this, this is exactly what i meant when idiots in your company can ruin their company image to a great significance.
[ snip ]
haha... this reminds me of the shows where some guy says:
"Dude, if you are watching this video, I'm already dead. blah blah blah..." -
Well we showed proof and now that you have come to a point with nothing else to rebutt.. you start to flame people as idiots..Originally posted by laurence82:And procter, if you are reading this, this is exactly what i meant when idiots in your company can ruin their company image to a great significance.
For the past three four years, they evaded the issues, avoid answering the questions and choose to evade or come up with totally different points when the groundwork or framework of issues have been laid.
You said the company took actions, but it seems it come to naught, or actually it didnt happened. Nobody in company seems to care what they say is right or rubbish, right?
Hmmmm...
Relax my brother... -
After two three pages, u still evaded the issues and questionsOriginally posted by christopher_rf:Well we showed proof and now that you have come to a point with nothing else to rebutt.. you start to flame people as idiots..
Hmmmm...
Relax my brother...
By your logic, i might as well mark my own paper and say i score ten A1s for O level
Tsk -
er.. wats e issue again? got side tracked reading e past few pages. haha.
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thats why i cut it down to two simple questions, u can read it within this page
but then seems nobody dare to answer
simple yes or not questions nia -
your theories may sound logical, but putting it the topic, it sounds ridiculous.Originally posted by laurence82:After two three pages, u still evaded the issues and questions
By your logic, i might as well mark my own paper and say i score ten A1s for O level
Tsk
try harder my friend..
I have a stupier theory, Please put your IC no. and address and scan it on both sides and paste it online so i know you are not a bot and not another networkers from other company...
You say you are not a networker whatyou, so proove it, or we'll treat that you are just flaming cause you are jealous of SE, wanna spoil SE name or maybe just for fun..
you should know how we all feel now.. -
up to now u still evade the issueOriginally posted by christopher_rf:your theories may sound logical, but putting it the topic, it sounds ridiculous.
try harder my friend..
I have a stupier theory, Please put your IC no. and address and scan it on both sides and paste it online so i know you are not a bot and not another networkers from other company...
You say you are not a networker whatyou, so proove it, or we'll treat that you are just flaming cause you are jealous of SE, wanna spoil SE name or maybe just for fun..
you should know how we all feel now..
i can repeat one, never mind
like i said, how can anyone go anywhere, market his scheme but yet refused to prove his income on a silly excuse that you wouldnt dare to post your details online? i mean so far we been on this, yet you stray and harp on posting details online...
when not answering questions, you can only harp on how i am from other company, how i want to spoil SE name..cant argue means cant argue
i like SE agents like you, so i can prove that this company has no good agents that can challenge my points
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haha...this thread is getting more n more fun... but lau... can ask some question... wad if there is one person who is willingly to post his income statment online... what benefit will dere be..?
Will you join SE..? tink no..?
Will there be like another question saying that this is just one of it..? it can't prove anything rite.?
PS: So if SE prove it den wads gonna happen nxt..? i'm just so so curious... -
This question been replied long time ago, on what conditions would a company is deemed significantly reliable (note, not lucrative yet) to joinOriginally posted by R_teo82:haha...this thread is getting more n more fun... but lau... can ask some question... wad if there is one person who is willingly to post his income statment online... what benefit will dere be..?
Will you join SE..? tink no..?
Will there be like another question saying that this is just one of it..? it can't prove anything rite.?
PS: So if SE prove it den wads gonna happen nxt..? i'm just so so curious...
Besides, your question is far off from issue at hand, we are talking about the duty of ANY one person who dare to boast his earnings online or onsite, while you are referring to a person joining simply based on one person income statement
And I already talked about the law regarding declaration of median, mode and mean income distributions of a company's distributors, which every agent seem to conveniently evade
Seems like i am the only one who know how each issue can be preceived from different point of view, and how one should ask the right question to get the right point
not like chrisopher, who loves to evade one question after another and came up with points which is far off from issue at hand
but then again, like i told mrleech, i dont mind, its a basis why laws regarding agents should stay, ie, words of independent distributors do not represent the company -
In the end I dun see any pt in arugment its purely waste of time.