Originally posted by nwm:He has tried explaining to them, but they are convinced they are doing the right thing...it is rather hard to convince someone to change his mindset and belief once they are really into it, dun u think so?
hi NekoRin. we understand your predicament with the parents.
"frontloading" (or stacking) is what they're doing and it will bring them pain rather than glory.
the "glory" that they are buying will be very short-term.
please read OUR BLOG or recommend it to them simply for [b]general knowledge before they go deeper into Grand Sun.
by Sg law there is 30 or 60 day refund policy required. they might want to invoke their right and reduce their commitment to their initial membership with not too much investment.
100k is ridiculous, at most a few k if they want to "buy" a commission title.
also for their general knowledge we could show them what we do, for their comparison so that they can see how most of the localised companies are not operating with sound business tactics.
what they are doing not only bring bad rep to the industry... but also themselves!
try network marketing... but try it the right way!
the_fallen: did you find out anything from your visit that we can learn??[/b]
Yea, I will stand by him to support him, just that I hope this one will not be a mistake, cos it can be a costly one. I have also asked him to research more about the product and the company and he has also gone for their seminar last weekend, after that he feels that this company is a good one and the product is sellable.Originally posted by y0ng81:to rainee
As long they know what they are doing, it will be better in sense. Well, not all products can sell online. Some people just want to try their luck online. But most cases, unless they know the product very well, then it will pick off n sells well. Different people have different ways of running the business. Some wants to do it big n some small. As long the product must be real and good. This is business world. Some will make it, some will not. I believe ur bf knows what he is doing. Try to understand him n his why.
Regards
Originally posted by nwm:I have googled for this company, and the best website I have found so far is this one http://www.grandsun.ca/ But this website is for a distributor in Canada I think, but it does have all the necessary information about the product and also the reward system...
1.
indeed.
karang guni, minimart, hawker, manicure shop, MLM, are all businesses.
a lot of people get involved.
and many fail to see it through as far as they wanted.
though in MLM, most perceive themeselves as [b]not running a biz, hence deem it as a scam when they dun receive the revenue they think they "deserve" for signing up/investing as a member/distributor... & sitting on their butts waiting for $ to fall from the sky.
2.
we can understand the parents' position.
especially if they want to maintain their "title".
but seriously they should consider cutting back a leeetle beeet. get a lower rank also never mind. already higher than the basic distributors ain't it??
is it better to lose a little bit of face now, or lose big face when they drop out of the system in 1-2 years?
they surely bought the idea of mlm because of "residual" income.
residual does not equate 2 years of revenue.
residual is more like 10 years (or more)?!
(the process of network marketing should be something easily run for years & years (& decades) to come by one's sub-distributors & sub-sub & sub-sub-sub, etc.
thus "residual" income comes about from leveraging on the "army" of one's junior product promoters.
there's really no residual revenue if one can only work the system for a handful of years.)
3.
what are the websites that ref to Grand Sun?
4.
network marketing is all about replicating the product/business introduction process.
(thereafter it is up to support from seniors for the product/biz side of things; and up to the company for the logistic side of things -- which will keep the system running.)
the simpler the process is, the larger the consumer/distribution network grows as more consumers can convert themselves into small-time biz builders if they see that they easily pickup the info shown/taught.
everybody's style is different, so the initial intro / lead-up may vary from person to person.
but when you talk about the way nekorin's parents were intro-ed, they would also likely tend to "prefer" their sub-distributors to do what they do.
(perhaps not invest 100k, since not everybody can commit that amount... but as many K as possible.)
realistically, it is not duplicable with this tactic taught by their uplines.
and this is exactly why bad business practices only help the people who devised them, and nobody else.
5.
by frontloading, it is very likely the frontloaders have many "dead" distributor accounts (family/friends names) in their downline, which will not suddenly become "live" workers any time in the near future -- if this was what frontloaders "hoped" for, or worse still bluffed by uplines.
e.g. if somebody gives you a gift (no matter what the value is) for no reason whatsoever, you aren't gonna be putting in the full effort needed to earn yourself a repeat gift.
so with that in mind.
the parents should understand for themselves that their position now, is as good as any other fresh basic distributor -- having to build a fresh active downline leg, i.e. a fresh network of consumers/distributors who see the "opportunity" for themselves and put in their own share of effort.
the only one-up the parents have is their pin / commission "title".
6.
all that said...
network marketing's concept best applies to consumables -- i.e. products that are bought, used up, and can be bought again within a relatively short time-frame.
not that it should not be applied to magnetic mattresses, or spa machines, or magic jewels.
but seriously, which makes more sense?
7.
perhaps it won't be viable for you, rainee, to be the one to bring up the pointers you learn in your study into this company/industry, at least you guys should convey your findings together since its their flesh & blood they are talking about.[/b]
I disagree with the portion where u stated that MLM businesses are not affected by natural disasters or other shocks to the economy. You're implying that floods do not destroy MLM factories and new regulatory laws will not affect MLM companies in any sense.. You have to factor in that not all MLM companies have legitimate schemes/ genuine products.Originally posted by y0ng81:Well, everyone has their own point of view. Just happen to be free and post it here.
Yes, I agree that you should not front load to a certain extend. Alot of people are hurted when they invested a sum of money into the business which they are unsure or not fully understand. But isn't business talking about investments too? All kind of business need capital. Do something which you can manage.
Main reasons could be that they are not suitable for the business or even lack the confidence to really deal in the business. There are cases where people cleared the stocks faster then they ever expect in many companies. Lucks play a part if there are people who wants to claim it this way. But end of the day is the person's credentials and ready contacts.
In a business point of view, maybe we can first understand your parents why and how long have they been in the business? Even in traditional business, people have to invest money which is even more frightening figures. They even lose money in the process of starting a business. People tends to be able to accept the facts on losing money on traditional business but not in MLM business ya.. How come? The human behaviour seem like to claim that MLM must not lose money and make money straight away? Is it the right way to analysis? Try to spend time to think in their shoes too.
Have any one here fly into USA and Europe countries to view trade shows? People pay thousands of dollars to fly n attend those trade shows and paid money to purchase the samples or even materials just to understand. They have not earn a single cents too but it is an investment. They could even ended up without a franchise business back home. Running a business is not easy as everyone thinks. Starting is easily, maintaining, sustaining and running it will test your judgement, foresights and insights. Like wise is the same as MLM. If you go around asking people who lose money in traditional business if they will do business again, they will say yes. But if you ask someone who is in MLM before, most of them will tell you no, Why? Isn't it a little contridicting too?
Be it traditional business or MLM business, people must know what they are doing. Businessman knows what to expects and they are very focus too. They do not have the time to be emotional or even time to bother about small issues. They look into many aspects in where they can generate profits, like wise same in MLM. A businessman must think of how much money he can afford to lose in the business too, which means he has a backup funds or capital. He will prepare a sum of loading capital where he will plans on when he will get his return of investments. 3-5 years if he is fast and pray hard nothing is going to happen like unknown factors like floods, earthquakes, sars, WAR, terrorism etc. These factors can wind up his business but not MLM. MLM business is a compressed methods of running a business, where most people need not to worry about renting a office, setting up factories, meeting products dealline, custom clearances, product quality, after sales service, shipping n handling etc. The MLM people just get the end products and all they need to do is to market it well. It is just humans who failed the system.
Why are banks rich? They lend money to businessman, bank earns the interests of what the businessman loan. In fact, the banks are worried that the businessman will not earn enough money to pay the interests n become bankrupt, which bank may not even get a single cents too. Therefore, business and MLM, people still needs to run it like a business, urgency etc. Many aspects to be learn n actions.
Business has many traps and rewards. It is up to how a person can identify what is for him and what is not. There are cases where this person fail in this MLM company but he succeed only maybe on his 3rd company. The valuable experience and knowledge he earns will make him a better person n leader to be too. Likewise same in MLM.
OK, have to end here, i can stilll carry on. I know this a free speech forums, wouldn't it be better if everyone try to be more open to take in answers with respects rather than running down on it?
Take care everyone
Originally posted by nwm:unfortunately, i didn't get to go to Grand Sun, but only maanged to get to Healthwise just yesterday.
hi NekoRin. we understand your predicament with the parents.
"frontloading" (or stacking) is what they're doing and it will bring them pain rather than glory.
the "glory" that they are buying will be very short-term.
please read OUR BLOG or recommend it to them simply for [b]general knowledge before they go deeper into Grand Sun.
by Sg law there is 30 or 60 day refund policy required. they might want to invoke their right and reduce their commitment to their initial membership with not too much investment.
100k is ridiculous, at most a few k if they want to "buy" a commission title.
also for their general knowledge we could show them what we do, for their comparison so that they can see how most of the localised companies are not operating with sound business tactics.
what they are doing not only bring bad rep to the industry (when the tactic does not work out as it should)... but also their own rep is at stake!
try network marketing... but try it the right way!
the_fallen: did you find out anything from your visit that we can learn??[/b]
if you do go down take a look, count me in too as well, as i've being wanting to go down this company often with little or non repsonse from people, so to date, i'm still waiting for a kind person to bring me down.Originally posted by rainee:Yea, I will stand by him to support him, just that I hope this one will not be a mistake, cos it can be a costly one. I have also asked him to research more about the product and the company and he has also gone for their seminar last weekend, after that he feels that this company is a good one and the product is sellable.
Maybe one day I should go down there myself to have a look. Hmm.
i tink maybe my bf's parents are going on feb 3/4, and they are asking me to go with them, but feel like very weird they are spending 150 just for me to attend this seminar. and that is the ticket price btw..u have to pay 150 just to listen to them, wich is bullshit in my opinionOriginally posted by the_fallen:if you do go down take a look, count me in too as well, as i've being wanting to go down this company often with little or non repsonse from people, so to date, i'm still waiting for a kind person to bring me down.
or could you give me your bf's no?
i contact him myself to go down grandsun and hopefully give some comments of the company to you guys
that is way too out and crappy already lor..Originally posted by rainee:i tink maybe my bf's parents are going on feb 3/4, and they are asking me to go with them, but feel like very weird they are spending 150 just for me to attend this seminar. and that is the ticket price btw..u have to pay 150 just to listen to them, wich is bullshit in my opinion
i will ask my bf if he is okie wif me giving u his phone number...will get back to u as soon as possible. i think his parents wud be happy to bring u along
hmm got, during the weekdays...but those are more like some kinda leadership session...dunno if u can attend if you are not a member yet...Originally posted by the_fallen:that is way too out and crappy already lor..
wasting 150 bucks on a talk?
other mlm companies all have open doors to people. what makes them so special?
besides the function which needs tickets, got any other time whereby go in FOC type?
it is more like a session where u get to meet the other ppl in the business, and maybe an opportunity to meet a new business partner too...Originally posted by nwm:wow. i've heard of $5. but definitely not $150.
maybe its a whitney houston sing-song Gala thingy??
Yea I understand...I have decided that no matter which path he decides to take, I will support his decision...after all he should be capable to make a good decision on his own...and even if it is a mistake, I will still stand by himOriginally posted by y0ng81:To Rainee,
I think maybe we should not jump to conclusion without finding the costs for the seminar. For example, all seminars do incurred some costs, it will depends on the locations, the food and refreshments and the durations of the seminar. If you are not comfortable to do anything, stop it and let the matter go, you need to voice out to ur bf or parents. No point dwelling yourself into misery.
Do you think it will be fair to your parents who are already in the business? Respect their choice, you have done your part in advicing and they are answerable for their decision and actions, like wise you. You will need to make a decision on alot of factors. Which could mean that sometimes the advice from here might not be the right answers or solutions to ur concern. Pls do ponder abt that.
Hope you have a nice weekend.
Regards
Originally posted by kevunkevun:The grandsun sg2000 is an ozone emitting device. They tell people that ozone can stimulate cell activity and improve their health. As a chemist, I can ensure you that this is bullshit. Ozone is a highly toxic gas that can cause permanent damage to your lung and skin cells.
It is a very good at killing bacteria in the water because ozone can oxidize the cell components of the bacteria, but at the same time, it's oxidizing your skin!
OZONE EMITTING DEVICES ARE BANNED FROM BEING ON SALE IN CANADA AND MANY PARTS OF THE USA: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/cons/ozone_e.html
The people who sell this machine have very little to no background in science, hence they are selling this device, or they have no heart....tryin to kill us!
They tend to target the elderly as well.
I've done considerable research into this company and their activities. Feel free to contact me at kou_kevin @ hotmail.com if you have any concerns.