This is how NTI is going to End.
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1. i have no comments cause i've been there once...no interest to go there againOriginally posted by LegacyMan:1. Yes most members is youngsters but most investor is older, and in middle age too.
2. What kind of annual report do you want ? From Emcom or Sunshine-Empire ?
3. Hmm, insurance is good for us too, so why we need FA when we can go to the insurance company to buy ourselve ?
4. Emcom has a section for Investor Relation, please look more into it.
5. 400 people going taichung is not brag, its real. I just came back from taiwan and 4 flight is booked to go, my SQ 867 flight alone is 100+ people already.
6. I am not too sure about this one billion USD chq as i only know about it but never saw it personally.
Conclusion is the person who bring you down and the manager who introduce you is not doing a good job enough, thats all ~
And they should not have make those remarks to you. But please do not think everyone is the same.
2. annual reports as in this kind (Pls bear in mind that is a company listed in Singapore Stock Exchange) http://www.listedcompany.com/ir/cosco/web/home.cgi?
not this kind
http://www.emcom.net.tw/investor-relations-gp.html
if you truely wants investors to be willing to fork out their money, provide all these stuff
3. in this case we are talking about the financial world not insurance as they are 2 totally different issues. Getting people to buy Lots of Shares and buying insurance is 2 different things. From what i know, you are getting people to join those BP(1 LOT) , SP(5 LOTS) , GP(20LOTS) .
For example, if your product is really good or the technology is really worth investing, do you think they still need to get people to bring their friends in and give a few hundreds or thousands dollars to "invest" in it? The answer is NO. Other bigger companies would be willing to pump in millions of dollars to collaborate with you in this project. The SG government would be helping you in this and promoting it. By then, do you think you still need to find people to drag their friends in for this?
4. Same as no.2
5&6 . I have no idea if its true.
no flaming please. this is what i think only. -
To add on
the analogy of insurance companies is a poor one. More often than not people rely on the words of the sellers rather than checking up the product itself. I mean, like how many people knows how to read FA in the first place? Buyers are poorly educated in this sense and do not understand the risk in whatever they are buying or investing. In this sense, we are left with clueless investors who are also not financially educated.
The funding of the project through MLM method undoubtedly a better one. Why? mariner has raised the question of funding from venture capitalists. Here is another food for thought. Since people are investing, there is no issue of debt and credit loans. In cases of bankruptcy and selloff, creditors get first stab at whatever is left of the company. Investors simply lose their money if there is no money left. No law to protect them
Which then raise the question of status of these 'investors'. Funding through the MLM way is definitely a cleverer way. No banks to answer to, no tiedown with creditors, no need to prove oneself to corporate investors who are not three year old kids in the industry. -
2. Emcom or Sunshine-Empire is not a listed company, and just started this year therefore i don't think there will be any annual report. But we do get some executive summary.Originally posted by Mariner:1. i have no comments cause i've been there once...no interest to go there again
2. annual reports as in this kind (Pls bear in mind that is a company listed in Singapore Stock Exchange) http://www.listedcompany.com/ir/cosco/web/home.cgi?
not this kind
http://www.emcom.net.tw/investor-relations-gp.html
if you truely wants investors to be willing to fork out their money, provide all these stuff
3. in this case we are talking about the financial world not insurance as they are 2 totally different issues. Getting people to buy Lots of Shares and buying insurance is 2 different things. From what i know, you are getting people to join those BP(1 LOT) , SP(5 LOTS) , GP(20LOTS) .
For example, if your product is really good or the technology is really worth investing, do you think they still need to get people to bring their friends in and give a few hundreds or thousands dollars to "invest" in it? The answer is NO. Other bigger companies would be willing to pump in millions of dollars to collaborate with you in this project. The SG government would be helping you in this and promoting it. By then, do you think you still need to find people to drag their friends in for this?
4. Same as no.2
5&6 . I have no idea if its true.
no flaming please. this is what i think only.
3. The lots in Emcom is not shares (for your info). You are not buying shares or stocks of the company. Those you are buying is call investment lots, therefore if the emcom incur any loss you no need to bump in money.
About your question why big companys or bank is not involved. I can only say there is bank and other company involved just that i don't have exact info about it. There's reasons why this project is done in MLM form, here's 2 of them.
1. Mouth to Mouth advertise is the fastest maketing to spread of a news. For eg. we already have more than 1 thousands plus investor with 3 months. We want to create a prosumers market not just consumers.
2. Our IP is a Networker therefore his project he always involved into MLM. I asked before why too, and the answer was that he want all his networkers under his companies to benefit. I know its crazy and no one will believe, but thats just the truth.
Out technology is true as our technology team (Taiyee) now is also helping another company call WeMax to build their Wireless project in GaoXiong, just for your info WeMax is also looking for partners to help them in their projects.
And all these is private project no govt aids is needed.
5. I personally went there, and photos is also taken if you want to clarify i can show you.
6. About the chq i can't comfirm too, so no comments.
Last dun worry this will not become a flaming session
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Well why i use insurance is because both MLM and Insurance is selling a product which involves alot of argument in the early stage.Originally posted by laurence82:To add on
the analogy of insurance companies is a poor one. More often than not people rely on the words of the sellers rather than checking up the product itself. I mean, like how many people knows how to read FA in the first place? Buyers are poorly educated in this sense and do not understand the risk in whatever they are buying or investing. In this sense, we are left with clueless investors who are also not financially educated.
The funding of the project through MLM method undoubtedly a better one. Why? mariner has raised the question of funding from venture capitalists. Here is another food for thought. Since people are investing, there is no issue of debt and credit loans. In cases of bankruptcy and selloff, creditors get first stab at whatever is left of the company. Investors simply lose their money if there is no money left. No law to protect them
Which then raise the question of status of these 'investors'. Funding through the MLM way is definitely a cleverer way. No banks to answer to, no tiedown with creditors, no need to prove oneself to corporate investors who are not three year old kids in the industry.
I agree with you points about the funding issues, but in my opinions whatever investment will always involved risk, its just whether you willing or daring to take up the risk
Anyway lau thanks for sharing your thoughts. -
and the whole point is?
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The point is some people will take it and some people will leave it.Originally posted by laurence82:and the whole point is?
There is ying and yang, black and white, but whatever it is, its concluded by human.
So i can only tell people that do not step into MLM or any investments if you are not ready.
And do not spread negative about it just because you don't do well in it.
If you got cheated go to CASE, its a better solution. -
which got what sort of relation to the discussion on educating consumers/investors or the funding issue?Originally posted by LegacyMan:The point is some people will take it and some people will leave it.
There is ying and yang, black and white, but whatever it is, its concluded by human.
So i can only tell people that do not step into MLM or any investments if you are not ready.
And do not spread negative about it just because you don't do well in it.
If you got cheated go to CASE, its a better solution.
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Some people will believe on the project when they just know of it, some will believe only when they have alot of info on it.Originally posted by laurence82:which got what sort of relation to the discussion on educating consumers/investors or the funding issue?
Some people even know everythin about it still don't believe it.
This is all about risk taking.
Education on the product will let customer have loyalty to the product, therefore he become a prosumer who both use and promote it.
If you check around there is quite a lot of wireless project doing in private sector, not all is fund by govt.
I can only say using MLM is just another source of fund raising. -
yes, but why shouldnt they be given access to all information?Originally posted by LegacyMan:Some people will believe on the project when they just know of it, some will believe only when they have alot of info on it.
Some people even know everythin about it still don't believe it.
This is all about risk taking.
Education on the product will let customer have loyalty to the product, therefore he become a prosumer who both use and promote it.
If you check around there is quite a lot of wireless project doing in private sector, not all is fund by govt.
I can only say using MLM is just another source of fund raising.
like the case of financial linked insurance product, customers should be given reports of the funds they investing in..no?
and like i said, MLM is a innovative new idea of fund raising, strangely, which takes a lot of risk and liabilities off the company, not the investors -
Actually they do gave alot info about the project. Just that they are all offline info, not on the net.
Anyway Emcom is a new company and the project is still doing therefore there is no finanical report.
But we do get project progress report every month and also executive summary.
Soon a coroporate blog will be coming up with alot of offline info uploaded.
Anyway i suggest we don't mix investment lots with share, stocks or mutual funds. Please note that for investment lots, you do not own company shares. -
Hopefully soOriginally posted by LegacyMan:Actually they do gave alot info about the project. Just that they are all offline info, not on the net.
Anyway Emcom is a new company and the project is still doing therefore there is no finanical report.
But we do get project progress report every month and also executive summary.
Soon a coroporate blog will be coming up with alot of offline info uploaded.
Anyway i suggest we don't mix investment lots with share, stocks or mutual funds. Please note that for investment lots, you do not own company shares.
And for your last point, why not? The strength of the project also depend on company's ability to carry it out. They are interlinked, not two separate entities. -
look at thisOriginally posted by D_Teo:KNN! Chee Bye Kia! U got problem ah? Not happy come down to NTI la! Scare ah! Bo ji, shut up la! Dun tink i quiet so long, u can anyhow post! Did NTI offend u? Cant u just leave us alone? KNNBCCB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS THE QUALITY AGENT(S) THAT JAMES PHANG TRAIN AGENTS TO BE LIKE
so bad, such a bad education.
like un-educated civilians they are.
healthy company to be in?
think again.
trying to act as if you big shot like that ar,
now they earn $10,000 per month, but let's take a WAIT & SEE APPROACH!!
after the phase 18, their income will drop, when all the pay-outs have being fully given up to 3600% after the investment plan, can they still earn that much?
ans = no, NTI income always goes up and down, no stable income de la
u urself no guts to meet elsewhere one to one, no back-ups.
if you earn that amount or more than talk, if you yourself no results, than kindly KEEP QUIET!! Thank You
coz you urself no proper knowledge on mlm, than want back-up, who is the person who needs real proper education and guidance? -
Originally posted by the_fallen:
If you ask me, i would say he is a poser for NTI. even if he is in he can't stay long with that behaviour.
look at this
THIS IS THE [b]QUALITY AGENT(S) THAT JAMES PHANG TRAIN AGENTS TO BE LIKE
so bad, such a bad education.
like un-educated civilians they are.
healthy company to be in?
think again.
trying to act as if you big shot like that ar,
now they earn $10,000 per month, but let's take a WAIT & SEE APPROACH!!
after the phase 18, their income will drop, when all the pay-outs have being fully given up to 3600% after the investment plan, can they still earn that much?
ans = no, NTI income always goes up and down, no stable income de la
u urself no guts to meet elsewhere one to one, no back-ups.
if you earn that amount or more than talk, if you yourself no results, than kindly KEEP QUIET!! Thank You
coz you urself no proper knowledge on mlm, than want back-up, who is the person who needs real proper education and guidance?
[/b] -
you speaking of me?Originally posted by LegacyMan:If you ask me, i would say he is a poser for NTI. even if he is in he can't stay long with that behaviour.
haha..who would be so foolish to be in a concept game?
who would want to poser of NTI?
Once Bitten, Twice Shy 
inside of helping Singapore by investing in Singapore, there they are helping other countries.
What a Joke!!
These is how NTI people repay Singapore for being such a Safe nation protecting US all the while from threats etc..
I think they ought to do some soul-researching. -
I was brought by my friend to the NTI office , I did not know why I was so trusting that day and I actually joined and signed the agreement.
Is it ok to back out? Will there be any trouble? Will I get my friend into trouble?
Can anyone please advice?
I've also read up the legistration act on MLM and there is this part:
The Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) investigates pyramid selling schemes. If you suspect a scheme has contravened the MLM Act, you can report to the CAD at telephone number 3250000 or lodge a report at 391 New Bridge Road, #06-701 Block D, Police Cantonment Complex, Singapore 088762. -
Hope789,Originally posted by Hope789:I was brought by my friend to the NTI office , I did not know why I was so trusting that day and I actually joined and signed the agreement.
Is it ok to back out? Will there be any trouble? Will I get my friend into trouble?
Can anyone please advice?
I've also read up the legistration act on MLM and there is this part:
The Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) investigates pyramid selling schemes. If you suspect a scheme has contravened the MLM Act, you can report to the CAD at telephone number 3250000 or lodge a report at 391 New Bridge Road, #06-701 Block D, Police Cantonment Complex, Singapore 088762.
chances are that by now, many would have contacted CAD before u to report against NTI and if what you signed for was indeed a fradulent scheme, the project would have been frozen by now.
if you signed the agreement (which i presume is for the Encom partnership), why not wait another 2 weeks till the promised payout day, before deciding on the course of action? Furthermore if they fail to pay out, i'm sure you'll have greater backing if u wish to withdraw
p.s. don't worry abt the trusting part, there are educated and discerning people who have gone down to the office and signed up tens of thousands of dollars on the spot and not regretted since. It all just depends on how you gauge and evaluate what is placed before you. Some people take a few seconds to make a decision, some people take days or even weeks. -
That is nonsensicalOriginally posted by Procter:Hope789,
chances are that by now, many would have contacted CAD before u to report against NTI and if what you signed for was indeed a fradulent scheme, the project would have been frozen by now.
if you signed the agreement (which i presume is for the Encom partnership), why not wait another 2 weeks till the promised payout day, before deciding on the course of action? Furthermore if they fail to pay out, i'm sure you'll have greater backing if u wish to withdraw
p.s. don't worry abt the trusting part, there are educated and discerning people who have gone down to the office and signed up tens of thousands of dollars on the spot and not regretted since. It all just depends on how you gauge and evaluate what is placed before you. Some people take a few seconds to make a decision, some people take days or even weeks.
None succeeded so far because law againts pyramid schemes are pretty tricky at this point in time.
It is because of this flaw that many MLM companies got away with it, including not refunding, closing down and run away and create whole host of relationship and social issues.
Even more despicable are people who take this chance to declare no arrests equate to being legal, which lead to many more being conned into schemes they dont know about.
Yes, i also believe any who stand on my side are discerning and educated, and you believe people who stand your side are discering and educated.
Flawed logic. -
In fact, looking at past cases against MLM companies from other threads, police didnt do much or cant do much against many irreputable schemes.
Unless the law is changed, MLM will pose a bigger social problems in the days ahead.
Sigh -
THanks for the replies.
I've heard some friends are even worse off then me as my friend told me that her bf sign and join not even knowing the company and nvr been down to the company, but he did receive some income.
As for some other friends, I know that they are in it for quite sometime, doing quite well off but I see that they have put in alot of time and effort also.
As for the refunding part, I think that I can't do anything thing even if I wants to back out now, treat it as buying a lesson although it's rather expensive.
What I'm concern is the legal effects, because what I read from the legal act (MLM) written that if the company is in breach of MLM act, all promoters are liable. Since I've already joined and signed the agreeement, I would have deem as its member.
Some people say as long as I don't participate further, there won't be a problem. But, I'm still unsure and quite afraid.
Have to blame myself for making such a rash decision. -
Law is one thing, enforcement is anotherOriginally posted by Hope789:THanks for the replies.
I've heard some friends are even worse off then me as my friend told me that her bf sign and join not even knowing the company and nvr been down to the company, but he did receive some income.
As for some other friends, I know that they are in it for quite sometime, doing quite well off but I see that they have put in alot of time and effort also.
As for the refunding part, I think that I can't do anything thing even if I wants to back out now, treat it as buying a lesson although it's rather expensive.
What I'm concern is the legal effects, because what I read from the legal act (MLM) written that if the company is in breach of MLM act, all promoters are liable. Since I've already joined and signed the agreeement, I would have deem as its member.
Some people say as long as I don't participate further, there won't be a problem. But, I'm still unsure and quite afraid.
Have to blame myself for making such a rash decision.
Sometimes police wont be bothered catching small fries, ie, promoters, but rather the big prawns, ie, the management.
Dont be worried unduly -
Thanks for reply again.
Can I double check those who joined or frens joined have sign an agreement with them? And did anyone after signing obtain a photocopy of the agreement for him/herself? -
I am saying D_Teo not you.Originally posted by the_fallen:you speaking of me?
haha..who would be so foolish to be in a concept game?
who would want to poser of NTI? Once Bitten, Twice Shy
inside of helping Singapore by investing in Singapore, there they are helping other countries.
What a Joke!!
These is how NTI people repay Singapore for being such a Safe nation protecting US all the while from threats etc..
I think they ought to do some soul-researching.
Anyway there is really people so foolish to play such games.
Btw your last point really make me laugh alot. Doing investment project in other countries means ungrateful ? Haha i think you have to think really think before you post
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You have not get a set of the agreement ?Originally posted by Hope789:Thanks for reply again.
Can I double check those who joined or frens joined have sign an agreement with them? And did anyone after signing obtain a photocopy of the agreement for him/herself?
Anyway if you feel uncomfortable about this project, just don't do anything. As long no promotion or dealing business, it should be ok. The investment itself is not link to MLM. -
I tot u said it was promoted the MLM way? thru recruitment?Originally posted by LegacyMan:You have not get a set of the agreement ?
Anyway if you feel uncomfortable about this project, just don't do anything. As long no promotion or dealing business, it should be ok. The investment itself is not link to MLM. -
Yes its promoted in MLM way, but as a investor you are link to emcom and sunshine empire as a client ONLY not merchant who is doing the marketing. Emcom is not a MLM company btw.Originally posted by laurence82:I tot u said it was promoted the MLM way? thru recruitment?
You will only be link to MLM when you wish to be a merchant with sunshine empire to promote the investment.
Just like you get a investment plan from AXA or Pru, does that means you are a member of it or promoting it ? No right, You are just a investor or client of it. Unless you wish to join the company and promote the investment.
Maybe using the link word is not approiate. Sorry about that.