Anybody heard of Long Far?
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The article kept emphasing on Direct Selling/MLM is legal but Pyramid selling is not. Think all in the forum agreeds. Problem is the methods used by MLM companies to recruit people (as in sonic_16, etc, replies).Originally posted by laurence82:SINGAPORE: It's been over five years since the law was amended to allow legitimate multi-level-marketing (MLM) firms to operate here came into effect, but the direct selling industry remains dogged by the negative image many associate with pyramid selling.
"In the early tough days, legitimate direct sellers were held back by suspicion. But sadly, this scrutiny of legitimate direct sellers continues till today; it is uphill still for us," said Mr Benjamin Tan, a founding member of the 30-year-old Direct Selling Association of Singapore (DSAS).
To improve its image and win public confidence, the body - which is made up of 22 of Singapore's biggest direct-selling companies - is calling for tougher self-regulation.
It is drafting rules to tighten loopholes in the industry - currently the association doesn't step in if any of its member firms collapse. With the new rules, it will step in to help affected consumers.
Also, it will step up on checks on its members: Those who repeatedly don't abide by its code of ethics and conduct will face expulsion.
This centre will allow consumers to check - for free - the legitimacy of any direct-selling company, and help organise public education forums to inform the public on the differences between direct selling and pyramid selling (see box).
"However, if the negative mindset about the industry persists, we are under severe threat of losing a large pie of the potential multi-billion revenue that the global industry will generate," said Mr Chia.
Multi-level marketing (MLM) and single level marketing (SLM) are the two forms of direct selling practised in Singapore. Consumers still tend to confuse the two forms of direct selling with pyramid selling, which is prohibited in Singapore.
"Direct selling is the sale of a consumer product or service, person-to-person, away from a fixed retail location. It is a popular alternative to traditional employment for those seeking to supplement their household income, or whose responsibilities or circumstances do not allow for regular part-time or full-time employment," said Mr Tan.
Pyramid selling on the other hand, requires participants to make a lump sum payment upfront to join the scheme, and the driving force to recoup the initial fee is the recruitment of more members, rather than the sale of goods and services. Many participants lost huge amounts of money under the scheme, and subsequently an Act was passed in 1973, declaring pyramid selling illegal in Singapore. - TODAY
Also from the article Pyramid selling on the other hand, requires participants to make a lump sum payment upfront to join the scheme, and the driving force to recoup the initial fee is the recruitment of more members, rather than the sale of goods and services.
I think it is a very fine line on this. Many MLM companies will ask you to make a lump sum payment for products to promote 1-2 levels first so you're have better overiding and sales commissions. Isn't this in a way asking for a lump sum investment? MLMers can earn money through sales and recruitment. Who is to say which method is the primary driving force?
A personal experience I had at Bel'air a few years back is that on a successful close of a package of products, after paying the money my friend received the products NOT from their sales counter, but from the distributor's stock. This shows the distributor had stock up huge amounts of products when she joined the business.
And in their "New Distributor Training Program" (I dun remember the exact name) attended by all newbies, the trainer said there are two ways to make money, sales and recruitment. The trainer then empahsis alot, on recruitment. Only like first 10-15 minutes of the program is on sales, the rest 1hr 45 min is on recruitment. Most other talks they have is on recruitment. The dukes and marquises (higher executives and managerial level people) of his team always emphasis on recruitment. In fact the first thing they taught my friend is to list all names, and contact everyone for potential recruitment.
So it seems they're all:
1. Breaking the law
2. Lying to get people down for recruitment
3. Giving empty/unrealisitic promises (Which is actually equalivant to lying)
4. Giving unrealistic expectations
.....but yet are legitimate mlm companies.
The distributor that my friend had joined under (the higher of a duke or marquis (memory no good)) claimed he earned 5-figure income every month. But when ask why dun he get a car, he said once a biker, always a biker. And he rides a very old TZR (a cheap bike in the 1995-96). This shows that he may not have that kind of income monthly. If he has, shouldn't he already had upgraded to a better bike. -
1. Breaking the law
2. Lying to get people down for recruitment
3. Giving empty/unrealisitic promises (Which is actually equalivant to lying)
4. Giving unrealistic expectations
I have encounter all the above four in LFI. -
I think I prefer tupperware parties.
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strangely, i had never go one myselfOriginally posted by fymk:I think I prefer tupperware parties.
altho they are way famous before i hear of the term multi level marketing -
A friend of mine from LFI introduced the product B n H to me tell me can cure some a few ailments that i had been having, took it for 2 weeks in the end only made my stomach bad and intolerable towards many foods. Caused me to have gastric ulcers and feel bloated after meals did anybody experience this symptoms or is it only me?
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I heard that LFI is the only MLM company which will fire it's distributers for not meeting the quota. Talk about stress!
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Is their product unique at all?
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ok deleted~ lolx
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you posted in the wrong thread.Originally posted by renze:shineshine what ever fu*k company.. stop cheating peoples money can? knn.. use a 20 years old tecnology to bluff ppl.. fuck u shit? 3G has already taken over.. what 150km/s very fast meh? let me tell u it's fucking slow? u say singnet's connection speed is 20km/s? knn.. dont talk kok can? means if i call my friend from boonlay to changi.. there will be a 2 sec delay?? haha?? so funny.. why i laugh? coz it's so fake?
agent from sunshine what ever fu*k can tell me his company can win singnet? u wanna win singnet in singapore 100000000years later pls..
their agent can tell me that his what ever fuck name company is doing their investment with temasek holdings.. which of coz we all know is under the goverment.. knn? u wanna win singnet? but u are under temasek holdings.. cb? u think we stupid? u are like saying u can win goverment.. but u are working with goverment? if so good ar.. why singapore goverment dont wanna buy ur plan? nb u talk so easy nia.. but so fake.. 6000USD i can earn 72000USD NI NA BEI!! GOT SO EASY ANOT??
top earning bank like swiss bank only can give u 8% if u can put 1,000,000USD with them.. what ur company is investing?? cb 6000 to 72000 how many % sia? 1200%?? KI Si HO LAH!! 1200%?? u can give me so many percent back!! got so ho kang eh min gia bo??
nb correct bo?? what i say got sense bo??
u can out talk me?? come loh.. stupid shits.. wanna sue me? come loh.. LAI! ASK JAMES PHANG OR JAMES VERY PANG COME SUE.. i bet he dont dare!! why? once he sue me his going to go to jail.. ask him to eat shit and rot in hell please.. and for the agents.. please.. mark my words one day ur company the sunshine what ever fu*k name.. will close down.. and u will lost the trust bewteen all ur friends & relatives.. yes u earn alot.. better start to save up coz soon it will close down.. and i hope u save enough money to migrate to some no place land and start anew..
you people are those fu*kers that are giving MLM bad names..
SWISS CASH u guys got read the papers?
goverment in malaysia are doing a check in them.. why?? a MLM company.. if u are doing good and honest why goverment will check u?? CB STOP FAKING LAH.. James sibei pang.. is the big cheaters.. below him.. all small ginna loh.. chinese saying go near red and u will become red.. go near black and u will become black.. so i dare to say sunshine what ever fuck is all cheaters.. big or small i dont care.. but all cheaters.. stupid shits..
btw.. swiss cash and sunshine what ever fu*k is the same boss loh.. so u say lah!! if 1 company is earning so much.. why the lan jiao boss wanna open another 1?? 2 headed snake arh?? chinese we call it liang tou she.. oie 2 headed snake will kana beat 1 leh if u are in any gang..
so guys stop joining them.. STOP!! because i dare to say i have the correct knowledge to show ppl.. 1200%?? lolx.. please sometimes use ur backside think also know where got so good 1.. money game is just money game lah.. 1 more thing.. the agent himself can even tell me.. "MLM.. what is better to sell? money or product??" CB!!! OF COZ IS PRODUCT LAH!!! where got ppl sell money 1?? u bank?? sell money is a crime leh.. and the agent tell me they are selling money!!! HOW TO SELL MONEY WHEN U CAN ONLY USE MONEY TO BUY?? CB!! THINK B4 U TALK CAN U STUPID AGENT!!!! BUSINESS REGINONAL DIRECTOR SOMEMORE!!! JAMES SIBEI PANG TEACH U 1?? WANNA CHEAT PPL ALSO DONT KNOW HOW!! WA.. HA.. HA..?
and yes.. the agent again told me.. becoz of some politics reasons.. sunshine cant make wireless in singapore.. and they are doing it in taiwan.. I'm a taiwanese.. i asked my tang ge over there.. what sia.. he nv hear b4 any company named sunshine empire or encom.. he still can tell me u got cheated is it? wah liao.. tai zhong si bo? my tang ge stay there leh.. wanna bluff me? pua kang tao lah u all.. and also.. u guys got find it strange anot?? they set up the company in taiwan.. but they never recuit anyone from taiwan?? lolx?? coz they will kana expose ma.. i think lah this 1.. i also dont know why they mai start recuitment at taiwan.. but u guys can go think abt it loh..
and the plan goes like.. 1 upline to 10 downline right?? use mathes loh.. 1 recuit 10.. 10 recuit 100, den 1000, den 10000, den 100000, den 1000000, 10000000, 100000000, 1000000000, 10000000000, <-- is the 11th generation leh.. 10,000,000,000 leh.. so am i right to say that it will stop at this 11th generation?? the whole world got 10,000,000,000 to recuit anot?? use mathes please.. got so powerful anot?? the world's pobulation only 6.4bil leh.. when it reach the 11th generation.. am i right to say that u cant recuit anymore?? den what they do??suck kok and die? unless u can find aliens lah.. den ask them to join u loh.. so now u dont know what the company will do right?? let me tell u what they will do.. close down and run away with the last generations money loh.. den when they do that... the top earn alot ma.. the bottom?? ................ i cant imagine.. guys just imagine.. the last genertation.. each 1 comes out with just 2000USD.. KAOZ!! u know how much james sibei fat earn?? i cannot imagine sia.. so now.. if u are that fatty.. u will pay out to them or u will run?? i dont have a product to sell, to show, or to invest.. what can i do now?? no more human being left for me to recuit liao.. knn RUN LAH!!! i dont run i die.. i run i also die.. so what?? run better right?? still got 50 50 i can survive.. earn so much can go plastic surgery my ugly face to some handsome dude.. and can make my body from fatty to some skinny build.. why not?? NB!! run lah!! u him u dont run?? I TOK!!!
In normal MLM company.. they are teach not to say bad things abt other MLM.. but i guess shinysun's agent are not teach the right way loh.. can say other MLM until how jialat they will loh.. dont believe?? u go and find a of their agent.. and tell him u are also in MLM and the next thing u know.. he will be standing there telling u it cant be done.. dont believe try loh.. i'm serious.. yes!! right now i'm a fortune teller.. dont believe u can.. until u go and try and do it.. it will come true loh.. dont be surprise what ever i say here comes true one day.. time can prove me right..
sorry for my bad english and bad words.. but after reading so many thing of what sunshine what ever fuck the name is.. i buay tahan but to show u guys out there using my poor english that they are just cheater.. be it the agent member or the company.. we will see loh.. 1 day.. we will see.. when that day come.. please.. add me on msn NOW.. [email protected] so that when that day comes.. i can show ppl my thinking is right... and i'm proud of it..
kindly edit [delete] you post in this thread and pos it in the NTI/Sunshine Empire threads. -
yes they are.. becoz in china yunna there this mountain that can grow a type of ginseng which is using in bai du so.. and no other place on earth except there can grow that..Originally posted by Rigante:Is their product unique at all? -
renze, don't wish to be a spoiler but i can expect the replies you'll get to your justification of uniqueness.
anyway what rigante means perhaps is if the purposes of the product is special as compared to other products.
in network marketing in general, as long as the product is consumable and the marketing is sound, its a pretty good formula.
it just depends on the people marketing... -
I have encountered No.2. Actually maybe not so much about lying but not sharing the truth.Originally posted by d.o.w:1. Breaking the law
2. Lying to get people down for recruitment
3. Giving empty/unrealisitic promises (Which is actually equalivant to lying)
4. Giving unrealistic expectations
I have encounter all the above four in LFI.
I was told to meet a friend at Aljunied MRT. And then on that day, I get a call from a colleague who was willing to pick me up from Bukit Batok and I said it was ok, since its far but he insisted it was fine with him. I followed and throughout the entire journey he refused to tell me anything about it or what I am heading down for!
I have no objections with the machine that reads your data and whatever which I paid $10 to use. But I believe if all the agents are able to read and prescribe what one should take to improve low levels of nutrients etc, I guess no one needs Nutritionists, Doctors, dieticians etc around anymore. I believe they specialise in their respective field for a reason. And we have people who have no such specialisation or are doing other office jobs outside telling me what I MUST take because otherwise I will get this, that & this. -
i disappeared from this thread for so long already and yet it's still active.
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yah i understand what u trying to say.. but den if that's the unique u are looking for.. den all i can say is.. there's is no unique product left liao..Originally posted by nwm:renze, don't wish to be a spoiler but i can expect the replies you'll get to your justification of uniqueness.
anyway what rigante means perhaps is if the purposes of the product is special as compared to other products.
in network marketing in general, as long as the product is consumable and the marketing is sound, its a pretty good formula.
it just depends on the people marketing...
unless u can find a herb or anything that can cure AIDS.. den i can tell u it's unique loh..
erm.. try to be fair abit to the product lah.. it's unique in it's own type loh.. detox product make till so grand.. it's really something loh.. ^____^ -
Wanna lookout for stars? Friend say today (11 Mar) LFI's official opening. Stars attending include Tay Ping Hui and Vincent Ng (yum).
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I wouldn't go down there....not even if local celebs get lured there by some quick cash to lend their face for an unworthy cause.
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don waste time on all these shit la. i last wk oso kena cheated down by fren den i joined cos i trust n wann help him. Now f..king regret man my $$. haiz havent earn mus pay liao everytime ask me go down waste my time listenin to craps. If got income i oso don mind goin down everyday Knn.
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Originally posted by 1337:
hi 1337,
don waste time on all these shit la. i last wk oso kena cheated down by fren den i joined cos i trust n wann help him. Now f..king regret man my $$. haiz havent earn mus pay liao everytime ask me go down waste my time listenin to craps. If got income i oso don mind goin down everyday Knn.
1)
do you mind expanding on what aspect did you want to help your friend?
to gain financially? probably not.
to be a part & expand his/her downline? maybe.
to "help" because you took pity on his anxious plight to find new product users? hopefully not.
to impress his/her uplines? err...
did the company do anything right in making you foot the product costs? like... at least, show you that the products are something you don't mind using or recommending to others?
e.g. does buying an insurance policy on impulse to help your junior agent-friend which ties you in until age 60, & who potentially didn't give you a through-and-through flawless policy, make any sense?
--> does it make more sense to study the policies you buy from different agents instead of signing up a little too early?
2)
if you're old enough, you'll know of consumer rights.
the western world have been practising this for decades.
only recently did "modern" s'pore pick up on this practice.
e.g. retail shops like Robinsons give 90-day no-questions-asked refunds.
Clean MLM companies go by the laws and provide refunds within 60 days.
--> so what are your complaints really?
3)
if you start a biz in a mall, at a kiosk, or even by the roadside, etc.
do you expect to obtain your inventory at $0?
do you expect to lay your goods out on a piece of canvas on the floor? (cost is at least $5)
do you expect your marketing/advertising campaign to cost $0?
if you invested a small sum in the above, do you expect to break even within your first 24 hours of operation?
why not we let a standard (non-mlm) business owner answer the above simple questions.
& do you realise that if your new customers expect everything for free (just like it seems you expect of your friend), it is almost impossible to spend $0 to help get him/her started?
don't know how LFI does it... but proper legal professional mlm is supposed to be run like a biz.
with product/system knowledge needed to be shown & educated to new "biz owners" who are essentially product users.
however many run it like a recruitment party & not much more.
4)
what are the "craps" that you were forced to listen to at LFI?
we're sure many would like to be enlightened.
perhaps you could state your grounds for the simple complaints, instead of blatantly making sweeping statements which many others do here across sgforums.
forums should be logical exchanges for/against something with good reasoning provided.
a lot of people open new sgforums accounts just to post entries just like you did 1337, so do try to differentiate yourself from the pack of complainers, yeah.
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if you start a biz in a mall, at a kiosk, or even by the roadside, etc.
Example: You want to try out ur biz idea by starting in a basa malam
do you expect to obtain your inventory at $0?
do you expect to lay your goods out on a piece of canvas on the floor? (cost is at least $5)
do you expect your marketing/advertising campaign to cost $0?
if you invested a small sum in the above, do you expect to break even within your first 24 hours of operation?
why not we let a standard (non-mlm) business owner answer the above simple questions.
Basic rental for a 2 meter by 2 meter space at any basa malam, will put you back by easily $100/day. Thats for basa malam, I have went to show in expo which cost $1k/day.
For inventory, nobody in this earth will give credit term to ppl selling things at basa malam. Say u only buy enought goods for one day e.g handphone cover. Cost 45 cents. Selling price a dollar. You have to sell 100 of them to get back ur rental, another 45 cover to cover cost say u want an income of $50/day, tat will be another 50 plus 23 cover. So total u need to stock up 218 cover and tat will be $98.10.
Lets say u print ur own flyer, say 1000 flyer per day. 1 copy is 2 cents total $20.
Ur total cost per day is $218.1 (per day) n after all tis trouble u earn $50.( working hour 11am-11pm) -
So your point is???
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it seems to me..u also doing the same.Originally posted by nwm:a lot of people open new sgforums accounts just to post entries just like you did 1337, so do try to differentiate yourself from the pack of complainers, yeah. -
Originally posted by spycampers:it seems to me..u also doing the same.
do you know the definition of a complaint??
show that points 1 to 4 resemble rants in any way.
we do complain about complainers... there's no doubt about that!
may we add that you should learn to not quote out of context which many people like to do here to spark controversy after controversy.
you must know the hokkien saying "eating your fill, and yet not having any excrements".
kindly refrain from that, yeah.
the full phrase should be:
"perhaps you could state your grounds for the simple complaints, instead of blatantly making sweeping statements which many others do here across sgforums.
forums should be logical exchanges for/against something with good reasoning provided.
a lot of people open new sgforums accounts just to post entries just like you did 1337, so do try to differentiate yourself from the pack of complainers, yeah." -
Rig, you're a smart dude/babe.Originally posted by Rigante:So your point is???
just reference foody's post to 1337's complaint.
POINT made. -
Not sure if you are being sarcastic but my point is simple: Give a summary after you have written an essay full of content - after all a conclusion is needed to sum it up in a nutshell for the readers.
Unless you take an obscure joy in just posting words.