Venture Era?
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hey i great to see you post on fourms ! i have read your post liao...you have say that you asked them something that they can;t tell you the Answer..may i know what are the thing you ask them ?Originally posted by normanndeverdilak:even though, as i said before, im not too confident about their products... i HAVE to say... it IS the most "fair" MLM company i've seen... no complaints there... -
Actually VE is better than some of the mlms out there. I was with VE for almost 2 years and i have attended many other presentations and joined some others. I have never regret joining VE.
During my 2 years with them, i learn a lot of thing, became more confident and it helps me know what i wanted in life. Of cos not everyone can succeed there, just like not everyone can succeed in life. The ones likely to succeed are the ones with perserverance which i lack of unfortunately.
It is really not that bad, u learn something(if u want to learn), u dun have to pay anything and along the way u may earn some money as well.[/quote] -
Its all about opportunity cost. Would the time be better spent learning the things you "learnt" through other means like starting your own startup, doing your own reading or doing something more worthwhile?
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Gosh, eikei... u seem to be awefully negative abt VE... whatever did they do to you? i admit, you'll lose time there, but only if ur too smug to learn. I mean... you'd rather READ then join an organization that provides free(even though limited) business training? and plus... they teach perseverence, determination respect.. amongst other things... im sorry, but i DO find these things worthwhile... i mean... even though i nea stayed wif them... but i still recall every once in a while about my time there, and apply it to my life now. I HATE being all "positive" and "cheerleader" about it... but its true... they DID teach me stuff. And i dunnoe abt you, but i'd rather spend time learning about business though 'safe' experience than other means. By this, i mean... i wont part with my $$, and yet i still get experience. Stop being so negative about them. And not to be too overambitious, but i've sort of countered you for almost every argument you had about VE, which you apparently either did'nt read; or found to be agreeable. So agree to me when i say this - They, as a company, did no wrong as of yet. I've had people who consulted lawyers, University Science lecturers (for the physics aspect of Mag S.S. and the Chemistry aspect of Water Systems)... they did no wrong. and the only thing we lose? time? we don't really lose at all, if we aren't too smug to realise that these Singlish-speaking, (and sometimes over-confident) people actually DO have things to teach us.
and as a response to godbowen... i asked them about their magnetic sleeping systems... and how it works... its not that they cant tell me... its juz tt they are too stupid to answer... lol...
... seriously... i was "shooting" questions with a ::university student:: friend of mine...(back when i juz took my 'o' levels)
we asked how it works... in great detail... coz if u notice.. the explanations just don't add up... (i.e. something to do with the magnetic field of the magnets and ions in our body if im not wrong...) We were askin miss jesse... she got a headache... (even though uni student oso...)... so then she called another guy out to help her... the guy also got headache(forgot who... but quite high-profile)... throghout the whole questioning... i remember a few MMs and BGMs(yeah.. BGMs)... were looking into our table and our drawings about how mag s.s. CANNOT and SHOULD NOT work... they were rubbing their skulls as if answers should come from their hair... no one in the WHOLE staff office knew...
then along came mr. kit... we had to call his specially... haha... then he did some crap talking... and said...
"Do you trust the company?"
"yeah... i guesss" (both of us)
"then trust that our products work."
argh... i died.. really wanted to quit... then u noe wad happened?? i went home and could not stop askin myself the questions... and in the MRT, i suddenly looked up and smiled... haaha... i figured it out..
and being the small company tt VE is, kit told shunjie i think, abt wad happened... and he addressed the matter in one of the product consultations... his answer matched mine... so to sum up... mag. s.s. works... *theoretically, either through science... or placebo* -
They shook my fundamental belief that real science existed in the commercial marketplace. One question you should ask is if they are teaching Sales or Business. There is a very big difference. Do you learn management? Do you learn HR? Marketing? What exactly do you learn there?Originally posted by normanndeverdilak:Gosh, eikei... u seem to be awefully negative abt VE... whatever did they do to you? i admit, you'll lose time there, but only if ur too cocky to learn. I mean... you'd rather READ then join an organization that provides free(even though limited) business training? and plus... they teach perseverence, determination respect.. amongst other things... im sorry, but i DO find these things worthwhile... i mean... even though i nea stayed wif them... but i still recall every once in a while about my time there, and apply it to my life now. I HATE being all "positive" and "cheerleader" about it... but its true... they DID teach me stuff. And i dunnoe abt you, but i'd rather spend time learning about business though 'safe' experience than other means. By this, i mean... i wont part with my $$, and yet i still get experience. Stop being so negative about them. And not to be too overambitious, but i've sort of countered you for almost every argument you had about VE, which you apparently either did'nt read; or found to be agreeable. So agree to me when i say this - They, as a company, did no wrong as of yet. I've had people who consulted lawyers, University Science lecturers (for the physics aspect of Mag S.S. and the Chemistry aspect of Water Systems)... they did no wrong. and the only thing we lose? time? we don't really lose at all, if we aren't too cocky to realise that these Singlish-speaking, (and sometimes over-confident) people actually DO have things to teach us.
and as a response to godbowen... i asked them about their magnetic sleeping systems... and how it works... its not that they cant tell me... its juz tt they are too stupid to answer... lol...... seriously... i was "shooting" questions with a ::university student:: friend of mine...(back when i juz took my 'o' levels)
we asked how it works... in great detail... coz if u notice.. the explanations just don't add up... (i.e. something to do with the magnetic field of the magnets and ions in our body if im not wrong...) We were askin miss jesse... she got a headache... (even though uni student oso...)... so then she called another guy out to help her... the guy also got headache(forgot who... but quite high-profile)... throghout the whole questioning... i remember a few MMs and BGMs(yeah.. BGMs)... were looking into our table and our drawings about how mag s.s. CANNOT and SHOULD NOT work... they were rubbing their skulls as if answers should come from their hair... no one in the WHOLE staff office knew...
then along came mr. kit... we had to call his specially... haha... then he did some crap talking... and said...
"Do you trust the company?"
"yeah... i guesss" (both of us)
"then trust that our products work."
argh... i died.. really wanted to quit... then u noe wad happened?? i went home and could not stop askin myself the questions... and in the MRT, i suddenly looked up and smiled... haaha... i figured it out..
and being the small company tt VE is, kit told shunjie i think, abt wad happened... and he addressed the matter in one of the product consultations... his answer matched mine... so to sum up... mag. s.s. works... *theoretically, either through science... or placebo*
I don't know why you consult a physics lecturer on "bio magnets" but as far as my research goes, they don't work. Same for the "ionic purification systems". Its just that they are not harmful either. At best, the effects are inconclusive and cannot withstand detailed academic scrutiny. If you could be so kind, you might want to publish their research papers complete with the correct citations for me to read and I might be able to help you filter out the verbage.
Would you trust a radiologist who can't explain how his machine work? How about a cardiologist who can't explain how the heart works? If the company isn't able to provide sufficient training to allow the staff to be able to fully grasp how the products work, there is something seriously wrong. -
Gosh, isn't you VE guys also doesn't dare to answer how your products work in the forum? Is it too stupid to answer or YOU yourself know VE products are not that wonderful?Originally posted by normanndeverdilak:Gosh, eikei... u seem to be awefully negative abt VE... whatever did they do to you? i admit, you'll lose time there, but only if ur too smug to learn. I mean... you'd rather READ then join an organization that provides free(even though limited) business training? and plus... they teach perseverence, determination respect.. amongst other things... im sorry, but i DO find these things worthwhile... i mean... even though i nea stayed wif them... but i still recall every once in a while about my time there, and apply it to my life now. I HATE being all "positive" and "cheerleader" about it... but its true... they DID teach me stuff. And i dunnoe abt you, but i'd rather spend time learning about business though 'safe' experience than other means. By this, i mean... i wont part with my $$, and yet i still get experience. Stop being so negative about them. And not to be too overambitious, but i've sort of countered you for almost every argument you had about VE, which you apparently either did'nt read; or found to be agreeable. So agree to me when i say this - They, as a company, did no wrong as of yet. I've had people who consulted lawyers, University Science lecturers (for the physics aspect of Mag S.S. and the Chemistry aspect of Water Systems)... they did no wrong. and the only thing we lose? time? we don't really lose at all, if we aren't too smug to realise that these Singlish-speaking, (and sometimes over-confident) people actually DO have things to teach us.
and as a response to godbowen... i asked them about their magnetic sleeping systems... and how it works... its not that they cant tell me... its juz tt they are too stupid to answer... lol...... seriously... i was "shooting" questions with a ::university student:: friend of mine...(back when i juz took my 'o' levels)
we asked how it works... in great detail... coz if u notice.. the explanations just don't add up... (i.e. something to do with the magnetic field of the magnets and ions in our body if im not wrong...) We were askin miss jesse... she got a headache... (even though uni student oso...)... so then she called another guy out to help her... the guy also got headache(forgot who... but quite high-profile)... throghout the whole questioning... i remember a few MMs and BGMs(yeah.. BGMs)... were looking into our table and our drawings about how mag s.s. CANNOT and SHOULD NOT work... they were rubbing their skulls as if answers should come from their hair... no one in the WHOLE staff office knew...
then along came mr. kit... we had to call his specially... haha... then he did some crap talking... and said...
"Do you trust the company?"
"yeah... i guesss" (both of us)
"then trust that our products work."
argh... i died.. really wanted to quit... then u noe wad happened?? i went home and could not stop askin myself the questions... and in the MRT, i suddenly looked up and smiled... haaha... i figured it out..
and being the small company tt VE is, kit told shunjie i think, abt wad happened... and he addressed the matter in one of the product consultations... his answer matched mine... so to sum up... mag. s.s. works... *theoretically, either through science... or placebo*
I tried your magnetic bed, nothing special. Not like as if you guys said what hospitals are using, how effective it was. I told you I can fu 50 gals per night, and you believe? Lol...
So, don't trust every words your upline said.
I believe you are a clever person, you already knew the flaws about VE products, but you thought you can still earn there. This is WRONG...
Go find a proper job dude.. It will be more promising and fulfilling.. trust me... -
I'm at the hospital almost everyday. I've not seen a single magnetic matteress or heard of any wards/rehab unit using it.
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If the products are really as good as they claimed, they will be sold in pharmacies and other retail shops.
The question: WHY ISN'T IT ? -
i think everyone's gettin the wrong idea here... hahs... i said it before... "im not too sure about their products". What i have said about the university lecturers? apparently mag. s.s. has a lot to do with physics... and again i say, APPARENTLY. im no physicist. The woman who had consulted with the physics lecturer only did so because she lost all faith in mag s.s., and wanted to see if anyone can say if it is even the littlest bit possible for it to work. the guy said its plausible. I admit its not like... super effective - i have it... it nothing special to me. All im saying is that for as long as they have a legitimate backup for their products, they have done no wrong. Even though the product dosent work. u wanna knnow the full science of it? well.... read up
http://www.garynull.com/Documents/magnets.htm#ISSUES%20IN%20MAGNET%20THERAPY
i recall, however, that somewhere during the start of this year, some journalist decided to diss magnetic therapy in the straits times. I also recall that a whole forum, was after that dedicated to the whole realm of magnetic therapy, and if it works... Alot of the old chaps there flamed and bored holes into the journalists' story. I dont remember the url of the forum, and i dont think i owe it to anyone to go along searching for it - after all, im not an avid supporter of VE. but fact is - its still a debated topic. Debated because no one has been able to find out the true science of it yet. All we have are opinions, is it not? VE claims mag. therapy works through Electromagnetic Induction, working in effect with our body's ions and the magnet's field (as an extensively summarized explanation).
My beliefs for the products of VE are shakey, at best. Throughout, when i seem to have been defending VE, i am merely stating the point of view from an employee. What THEIR defense is. Dosent mean i buy it.
but i DO stand by my thoughts that they have done no wrong as of yet. Not legally, at least.Their ethics may stink, but as i've said before... dosent matter. Their products may just be very expensive placebos - but they did their research enough to know how to handle counterarguments; which is why no one managed to complain so far as to shut down the company for fraud.
if u were to ask wat exactly i learn from them... i have learnt enough to know that it is nothing harmful to me. isn't that good enough? yeah, they teach HR... management... in its most basic forms... but in this context... i'd be happy to learn it.
and by god... when i said u can learn a thing or two there? i DEFINITELY did not mean science, "Mos"... if i based my science on them... i'd prolly be a bloody caveman by now... we all know that most VE employees are so blinded by positivity that they dont question at all. But at the same time, you cant just turn away from such a debatable, extensively researched topic with the lines "as far as MY research goes, it dont work." People who have been researching this (under scientific situations) for more than 15 years are still split into two. What more us? Again, these scientists have been replying in that forum i've said earlier... find someone from the inside to tell u the url.
and another thing - u cant compare mag. therapy to radiology. Radiologists kill if dumb enough. Magnetic therapy? at most, kills people with pacemakers(if those people are dumb enough to use it)
and yet, somehow i agree with you, eikei. The company is stupid enough to only address serious questions about how a product works when people start questioning.
the only reason why i joined VE, as i think i mentioned before... is experimentation. It was after my 'o's... i was bored... it wasnt about the money. i unfortunately have enough of that to not value it. So have faith that i wont join another MLM company...
to eikei... i have never actually heard anyone from VE say that mag s.s. used in hospitals. If they actually told you that... then i guess they are definitely at wrong in this matter... then again... these people would stop at nothing to make a sale. (i would know)
and i have noooo idea why they dont do retail... i have asked and asked and asked.. to me, the smartest thing to do would be to do retail AND mlm... but they say they can only go either way. sooo... yeah... -
Hrmm... perhaps we got your stand wrongly. Anyway what you learnt can be learnt elsewhere much more for free and thats what I'm trying to say.
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EiKei i can not stand you anymore...the only way to know more u should go and do resrecher ur self !Originally posted by Eikei:Hrmm... perhaps we got your stand wrongly. Anyway what you learnt can be learnt elsewhere much more for free and thats what I'm trying to say. -
What makes you think I can stand you too? You came to this forum seeking information and when you are provided the information you are unable to digest and comprehend the level of discussion here and hence have resorted to broad dismissals as a way of shrouding your personal inadequacies.Originally posted by godbowenX2:EiKei i can not stand you anymore...the only way to know more u should go and do resrecher ur self !
I have done the relevant research and have found the points and information provided for and pertaining to the conclusiveness of the studies made that magnetic mattresses and "ionic water" do not stand.
On top of that I work with youth startups and I know for certain that the "skills" learnt in VE cannot match real-world experience provided when working for youth SMEs in management, HR, client meetings, operations, logistics, marketing and other areas of running a regular business.
Before you post another more inconclusive post, why don't you do some research yourself and provide us with something that supports whatever real stand you hold? Somehow with your post I don't believe that you happen to come here for information anymore. -
Haha.. this statement is si bei cute...Originally posted by godbowenX2:EiKei i can not stand you anymore...the only way to know more u should go and do resrecher ur self !
Opinions of individuals is not very constructive in threads like this... -
Greetings,
I'm an ex-VE, staying there for around 1 year. Although I left VE due to personal reasons, I'm very happy during my 1 year stay and in deed helped me a lot in my current family business.
I came across this forum and was shocked to see some people during the discredit VE with irresponsible personal comments.
Eikei, can you please show us your "studies" why the products dont work?
MosPosterior, you said "opinions of individuals is not very constructive in threads like this..." I have to agree with you because so far you havent make any constructive comments other than give your personal opinion.
Peace. -
Neither have you made any constructive comments.Originally posted by RichardHu:Greetings,
I'm an ex-VE, staying there for around 1 year. Although I left VE due to personal reasons, I'm very happy during my 1 year stay and in deed helped me a lot in my current family business.
I came across this forum and was shocked to see some people during the discredit VE with irresponsible personal comments.
Eikei, can you please show us your "studies" why the products dont work?
MosPosterior, you said "opinions of individuals is not very constructive in threads like this..." I have to agree with you because so far you havent make any constructive comments other than give your personal opinion.
Peace.
I don't find the need to prove that VE's stuff cannot stand up to medical and scientific scrutiny. It is the job of the promoter to sell his products.
If I have to prove by negative (exclusive) induction, I'd be a very busy man indeed, proving the Sun is not cold, water is not unsafe to drink, you being a logical person etc...
You are just another VE clone hiding behind the mask of an ex-distributor. I'd really respect you much more had you come and defended the company as a representative of the company instead of cloning and attacking people. -
Eikei,
I'm very surprised by the way you respond to my comments. You make another biased assumption that I'm a clone?
I feel that you have certain HIDDEN AGENDA behind all these baseless and irresponsible remarks. I feel that you are not sincere in responding to my question. Just a remark of "I'm a busy man" to run away from everything?
I'm very sincere to meet you to explain further, not in the position of a MLMer but rather a EX-MLMer. You can anytime message me. -
If the products are really as good as they claimed, they will be sold in pharmacies and other retail shops. Why isn't this the case?
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I've been called an Amway agent before so your "stunt" calling me someone with a hidden agenda does not hold water. Anyway most forumers here, both from MLM and anti-MLM know I don't have any agendas so you can get in line and be more respectful in your accusatory tone.Originally posted by RichardHu:Eikei,
I'm very surprised by the way you respond to my comments. You make another biased assumption that I'm a clone?
I feel that you have certain HIDDEN AGENDA behind all these baseless and irresponsible remarks. I feel that you are not sincere in responding to my question. Just a remark of "I'm a busy man" to run away from everything?
I'm very sincere to meet you to explain further, not in the position of a MLMer but rather a EX-MLMer. You can anytime message me.
I don't run away from things and I have met more forumers regarding their MLM problems than you have posts. I don't want to PM you as it serves no purpose. If your are sincere, could you explain in full what VE is about then. Without leaving out any details, exactly as you would explain to a prospective downline. -
Frankly speaking, you happy or not is really none of our problem.Originally posted by RichardHu:Greetings,
I'm an ex-VE, staying there for around 1 year. Although I left VE due to personal reasons, I'm very happy during my 1 year stay and in deed helped me a lot in my current family business.
I came across this forum and was shocked to see some people during the discredit VE with irresponsible personal comments.
Eikei, can you please show us your "studies" why the products dont work?
MosPosterior, you said "opinions of individuals is not very constructive in threads like this..." I have to agree with you because so far you havent make any constructive comments other than give your personal opinion.
Peace.
Again, this is your personal opinion. Just like some people like conners, scammers, dungs and so on. This is purely to that person's own preference.
Richard, why not you explain why VE wanted to use MLM style to sell those products if it is really a miracle?
Peace too.
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Nonono....Originally posted by RichardHu:Eikei,
I'm very surprised by the way you respond to my comments. You make another biased assumption that I'm a clone?
I feel that you have certain HIDDEN AGENDA behind all these baseless and irresponsible remarks. I feel that you are not sincere in responding to my question. Just a remark of "I'm a busy man" to run away from everything?
I'm very sincere to meet you to explain further, not in the position of a MLMer but rather a EX-MLMer. You can anytime message me.
People that had few post with arrogant attitude are more likely to be clones, boy.. you just had to understand the flow in this forum
Look at your date? You joined and had the first few post for flaming?
Well, don't make it so obvious at least?
By the way I work in A*STAR...
Agenda of Science, Technology and Research... I believe you are making cheap opinion again... Where is the analysis to prove it?
Wow.. meetings! I love it.. I believe at this pace, we will be meeting real soon.. (In court I mean) -
I had told you earlier if you are sincere, I'm ready to meet you up to discuss further.Originally posted by Eikei:I've been called an Amway agent before so your "stunt" calling me someone with a hidden agenda does not hold water. Anyway most forumers here, both from MLM and anti-MLM know I don't have any agendas so you can get in line and be more respectful in your accusatory tone.
I don't run away from things and I have met more forumers regarding their MLM problems than you have posts. I don't want to PM you as it serves no purpose. If your are sincere, could you explain in full what VE is about then. Without leaving out any details, exactly as you would explain to a prospective downline.
If you are not, then say so. you dont have to beat around the bush. I dont wish to waste my time further if you are just interested in your own flaming war.
A yes or a no is simple enough. Dont have to give further excuses. Do you want to meet up? -
You work in A*STAR as a toilet cleaner?Originally posted by MosPosterior:Nonono....
People that had few post with arrogant attitude are more likely to be clones, boy.. you just had to understand the flow in this forum
Look at your date? You joined and had the first few post for flaming?
Well, don't make it so obvious at least?
By the way I work in A*STAR...
Agenda of Science, Technology and Research... I believe you are making cheap opinion again... Where is the analysis to prove it?
Wow.. meetings! I love it.. I believe at this pace, we will be meeting real soon.. (In court I mean)
I love to meet you in court. I'm wasting my time talking to a XXXXXXX in sgforums. -
I just simply hate retarded moron keep whining people to meet you up...Originally posted by RichardHu:I had told you earlier if you are sincere, I'm ready to meet you up to discuss further.
If you are not, then say so. you dont have to beat around the bush. I dont wish to waste my time further if you are just interested in your own flaming war.
A yes or a no is simple enough. Dont have to give further excuses. Do you want to meet up?
Hey, not everyone is as free as you
Furthermore... We can't bear to see freakish face... our whole day appetite will be ruined..
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Hahaha... Personal comment again..Originally posted by RichardHu:You work in A*STAR as a toilet cleaner?
I love to meet you in court. I'm wasting my time talking to a XXXXXXX in sgforums.
At least I am toilet cleaner..
You is a begger + scammer + handicapped...
Meet in court? You sure you didn't spent all your wealth in magnetic mattress liao?
By the way, what is XXXXXXX??
You retarded or what? Or no balls to say the whole word out?
Come start from me...
You bloody mother fucking son of a bitch/pimp bastard, asshole of a whore family...
See? This is how you scold people...
XXXXXXX really shows no meaning, except your kintergarden level.. -
AS MUCH as i think VE is not a company tt scams employees or customers.... richard: you are wayyyyy out of line to just barge in and declare that something sacriligious has happened and -you- of all people, wanna set it right. This is a FORUM. all there is, is personal comments. i would also like to see eikei's studies for my own, and my friends' own good (i still hv friends in VE. if mag s.s. is really proven with science to be a scam.. i'd be happy to spread the idea). But at least i wont be arrogant enough to say its baseless and -irresponsible- before even looking at it.
you wanna be sincere? u wanna stop all this "personal comments" from going round that you oh-so-despise? post your findings - post your studies, and allow eikei to post his. Coz as sure as hell - no one would actually like to meet you (DUH!). meeting only way to prove one's sincerity? no phone? no keyboard? at least if more than one person proves sincere enough... YOU prove decent enough to share the abundance of information you have on why VE is so righteous to all of us.
oh, and THIS is something personal - stop trying to sound "chim" with your english when you dont know what you're talking about. Its irritating when grammer is all over the place, and words like "hidden agenda" are used as in caps as though it was a proud moment in your life when you knew such a word existed. Speak like the chinaman you were meant to be. At least then, i'd know you dont mean to sound bad. You just do.
peace
p.s. wondering why im all of a sudden so negative towards you? don't ask. You'd be gettin a heck of a long post.[/u]