Nop,E.Dynamic,Nti,Empire Dream,CareCrop,Coslab,Astral Int.
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exactly.Originally posted by leddy:Dear Weijian,
BRo~ you read too much rich dad poor dad already la. The rich do get richer, but they also get poorer, like wise for the poor. Anyway, so what if a book is best selling? It just meant it's a popular book, but filled with good advice or not is not necessary. Cocaine is so hot selling, but does it mean it's any good? Macdonalds is so hot selling, but does it mean it's very healthy? Anyway, RDPD is on a few best sellers, but doesn't mean it teaches u the correct stuff. If you look at the books reputable financial magazines or institutions recommend, like Forbes, RDPD is not one of them.
It may be New York times best seller, but it doesn't mean much. New York times also not a full fledge financial news paper even it does have some financial news, just like Straits Times is not a full fledge financial newspaper.
Robert Kiyosaki got famous because MLM companies started buying his books in bulk and distribute them. That's why you see he keeps praising how good MLM companies ah. If he doesn't recommend MLM, why would MLM companies buy his books? He may have pointed out some interesting facts about finance in his books but many things written are quite questionable. Read at ur own risk! -
thankz for all of ur guys de concern but maybe i shld juz say a bit more
for mugger666, u said:
in mlm as well as those in the outside world, only just 5% of the ppl will truly earn big bucks while the rest will continue paying the start-up fee and the monthly maintainance fee to support the big earning uplines
my reply: if u wanna be successful, its the desire and passion that makes u successful, think of the $1.99 shop that lady the boss of $1.99. why did she make it big?? she tried alot of ways
why only 5% truly earn big bucks?
coz only the 5% really worked for it.
as to the maintence:
let me ask u a Qn: if u were to open a shop, u will have to pay the water electricity bills wages, salary, etc..even if u were to open a new shop do biz, u also have to pay for ur own captial too.
if u dun pay maintence, will the govt be so nice as to let ur shop have free electricity and let ur shop be in opeartion?
will they?
no they wun
as to laurence82:
u : so does other system like the matrix, they do can help other people without the potential instability of a binary system
me: can u explain the potential instability of a binary system?
u: Binary system another MLM system, its not counted as a separate thing altogether...
me; not counted as a separate thing meaning? i dun get u..
u: True, but are you sure that in nti people are being helped to further their well being, or the upline pockets onli?
me: i personally learnt alot of things regrading how to plan for the future, how to have a better life etc..the things they taught me in there can be applied to other places like leadership, human relations, communicaton skills, presentation skill..and still learning other skills, btw, i score an A for my module in my first month due the the application of what i learnt from nti..hmm, can elaborate on well being??
u: Recommendations by MLM companies = good? Not true, same goes for books like Brown's Da Vinci Code, sold so popularly that people cannot differentiate the truth or false facts about Catholicsm, potential ground for trouble
me: i didnt say mlm companies, i said network marketing companies which inculdes SLM companies, even if companies dun recommend it, den why do the book stores have these books top 10 sales chart weekly, personally i went down to a MLM, cheated there but judging frm their working age, theirs was around 35-60 ++ de age, will they recommend readin of books, will ppl of this age really read even though they did recommend but its on the board but not tat they said it out verbally
u: dey, Herbalife cost 65 to sign up nia, Infinity2 45 to sign up nia....and all products add up also less than $288
me: 65, den wat do they ask u to do later after joining?
go sell products rite? den only can u earn, this one, the manager did taught us how to expose the inside tatics of the companies whereby they make it look cheap to join, but after they join, they need to be a sales person first, after hitting a target, den will they be a distributor. the only difference is tat they do sales so they need not pay so much, but in nti, we dun do sales, its to make us noe more more the product
u:will this statement help in pulling customers to nti? it only serve to further your self delusion and antagonistic attitudes towards others. hell, is this what you called marketing? you sound more like an evangelistic churches that demands rather then attracts people to ur coy
me: i am not trying to pull ppl in.
the 10 reasons is what i found from other companies, later i will pose the 10 reasons up, its true for the 10 reasons, u may like to take it back to ur company to share why the poor wun get rich, up to u, my role here is juz to make clear of the misunderstanding and misconceptions of the bad name of network marketing, actually its a good career but due to bad gossips in the past few yrs, no choice..
u:after reading your post above, i think your rationality is a bit of a laugh, i seen way better posts than yours, MLMers and non-MLMers alike
me: i am not saying tat my post is the best, and i where did i give u the impression whereby i am the best? if i did, i apologize on my part.
i am trying to say that forums is not a good place to trust, even if they are written by the international president themselves, as we have no verification tat they really are one, if they are speaking the facts, they shld support it with reports, maybe the pic of the newspapers..
u: knwing how to think, is different from knowing how to be rational and reasonable
me; i agree, but i am being rational here, as in reasonable, i am open to discussions, not like other ppl in the other posts whereby they anyhow shoot the companies down when they dunno anything. i am juz trying to clear the bad name of network marketing here.
u: dey, police been reported to, but i guess u placed too much trust in the police system...
me: its not tat i place too much trust in police, but i juz noe tat if the company is out to cheat, the company's name will be featured in the news.
as to leddy:
u said: you read too much rich dad poor dad already la.
me; in actual fact i haven even read a single book which the newspapers recommended
u: Macdonalds is so hot selling, but does it mean it's very healthy?
me: i agree with this but books, its like if u find anything good, lets say a movie, will u ask ur fren along to watch tat too?
its like helping them to do free advertising, in fact everybody is doing tat. -
here is the 10 reasons:
Why the Poor will Always be Poor
An article taken from web site of Wallstraits.com
There is an old saying: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It's true, and there's a logical explanation why it holds true in every capitalist society. Put simply: the rich understand the difference between an asset and a liability, and the poor never quite get it. The rich work for investment capital, while the poor work for disposable income. The rich buy appreciating assets and allow returns to compound, while the poor buy depreciating assets and live paycheck to paycheck. The rich live a bit below their means until their compounding investment returns supply enough passive income to support a lavish lifestyle, while the poor live just at their means throughout their lives.
I was reminded of the stark distinction between the haves and the have-nots when the Straits Times newspaper carried a cover story about the new Singapore Shares and featured a large color photo of a long line of poor and elderly waiting to cash in their shares on the very first day of issue. When the reporter asked why they were choosing to sell so quickly, they invariably replied, "I need the money". No doubt, their newfound wealth will evaporate before year-end.
Education is not the key to wealth. Income level is not the key to wealth. Rich parents can lead to wealth, but it won't guarantee continued wealth. Winning the lucky draw is not the key to wealth. The secret to wealth creation is simple: set aside a portion of your regular income in an appreciating asset with compounding returns. One of the best vehicles for wealth creation is the stock market.
Anyone can be a millionaire by retirement age. That's right, anyone, with any education level, and with any income level. If you can put aside just $25/week and invest it in a stock portfolio that yields long-term returns of about 12%/year, you will retire 40 years later with $1,188,342. Even as low as the barrier is to joining the ranks of retired millionaires, so few, less than 1% of the population, will ever come anywhere close to achieving this simple goal. Why?
There are basic mistakes made repeatedly and consistently by average income people that lead them down the road to poverty, or lower middle-class at best. The most basic mistake is to buy a lifestyle you cannot yet afford, using borrowed money to make up the difference. Typically, money is borrowed at high interest rates to pay for things that eventually depreciate to zero value. The worse investment is probably a car, which is expensive, has high operating costs, and rapidly loses value.
Those who never quite figure out the difference between an asset and a liability, and the magic of compounded returns on even small investments over time are doomed to suffer in poverty for a lifetime. Amazingly, no schools offer courses in basic family finance to help avoid such a trap. Too often a car, a stereo system, a new sofa, or a handphone are purchased with credit cards as if they were assets... when they are really heavy burden liabilities. To escape the poverty trap, learn the following lessons. Study them until you understand the principle behind each reason that traps you in poverty. It's not too late to break free!
Top 10 Reasons You Will Never Be A Millionaire
#1 That $25/week means you'll have to go without a Starbucks treat every single day! No way! I'm not into that short-term pain for long-term gain crap. Live for today!
#2 Instead of living just below my means, I've decided to live just above my means and allow my income to catch up with my lifestyle as I get older. In the meantime, I can support a nicer lifestyle using credit cards and a loan from Mom & Dad. The interest payments aren't that high.
#3 Instead of buying stocks, I decided to buy a car. My girlfriend loves my Mercedes! My car dealer and banker had no problem lending me the $200,000, so it must be within my means. After the monthly car loan payment, I still have plenty left for insurance, maintenance, repairs, road taxes and petrol. I love to drive! No more busses & trains for me.
#4 Stocks seem too risky, so I've decided to keep my savings safe-and-sound in fixed deposits with my bank. They are guaranteed 2.5% per year interest and I can't lose my money.
#5 I decided to invest in stocks, but my broker recommends I sell when I can realize a 10% profit. He say's "you can't go broke taking a profit".
#6 I decided to speed up the millionaire process from 40 years to 20 years by improving my stock market returns to over 20% instead of a steady 12% per year. I think I can do this by trading speculative stocks as they indicate buy & sell signals on the price chart patterns.
#7 Instead of buying stocks, I decided to invest in a second property. My grandfather made a fortune in property in Singapore. I can buy a second condo for $500,000 and lease it out for cash flow of $1,000/month. I only have to put 20% down too, just $100,000, and I can borrow that on a personal loan from the bank with my current income.
#8 I need all my money for necessities today. Instead of saving $100/month today, I'll wait until I'm 30 or 35 and save more aggressively, maybe $250/month, to make up for not saving today. It will be easier to save later because I'll probably have a higher income.
#9 Instead of saving just $100/month, I decided to save $200/month and retire early as a younger millionaire. The problem is that I keep needing money for some unplanned event that comes up, and it forces me to liquidate my portfolio every so often, then I have to start all over again. Sometimes I have to sell at a loss in a bear market when an emergency comes up.
#10 I decided to speed up the wealth creation process with some help from my friendly broker, who agreed to lend me $1 for every $1 I invest in my stock portfolio... something called a margin account that effectively doubled the size of my portfolio. It worked great in 2000, as my tech stocks rose 10%, I made a 20% gain! Then when the techs sank in 2001, my portfolio kept falling and my broker kept calling--something called a margin call, that required me to add more money to maintain less than 50% debt level. I added all the money I could, but the stupid stocks kept falling and eventually the broker forced me to sell them all at a huge loss! -
u can consider if the 10 reasons is it a way to pull ppl in or am i juz here to share knowledge or ways to improve ourself.
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business with no sales? hmm.... then where the money come from? pyramid selling again... haiz!
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okokok, you win! Happy?
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Wei jian! Its a very brilliant environment that u have,Its easier to develop in a team with the same idealogy.
Massive Action = Massive result.
Talk is free, Action is answer.
Since it benefits u So just go for it
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You know, after being out there for sumtime, people read less books.
Why?
Many authors wrote logical bot impractical self help books designed to make money, than to help people. Think Anthony Robbins and his Empower Yourself Gooblegook.
Stop quoting books as if they are the authority, and also, pls bring forward your own argument, havent you got any clue your ownself?
Besides, talk is cheap. Prove your ownself first, before thinking you can influence others. Also, turning marketing into a evangelistic quest has been the downfall, and the sole contribution of many wrong and negative perception towards MLM..
Ponder over these few points before you make yourself look silly here... -
Besides, talk is cheap. Prove your ownself first, before thinking you can influence others. Also, turning marketing into a evangelistic quest has been the downfall, and the sole contribution of many wrong and negative perception towards MLM..
Haha There is nothing i can do to stop u from using yr lip or should i say yr reptilian brain here.
Ponder over these few points before you make yourself look silly here...
I have got nothing to prove here anyway even with yr great forum contribution as i can see.
What is yr belief on MLM based on?
Newspaper or heard somewhere?You know, after being out there for sumtime, people read less books.
Its really a pity that people read less books.. but what really ponder upon me is what do u mean people read less book??
Why?
Many authors wrote logical bot impractical self help books designed to make money, than to help people. Think Anthony Robbins and his Empower Yourself Gooblegook. i wanted to laugh out loud.
Do u think u are ministry of education? or yr assumtion based on yr own personal experience. Btw large forum posting only means u are active in forum, i does not prove u are knowledgable. haha~ -
Wow, the conversation turned to me, instead of the points
I said, dont just copy paste the books...provide your own arguments too. and someone managed to twist it into ' MOE' ....
nvm, i shall see if u manage to laugh after wasting a bit of time in nti
i dont even see the old pro nti people here bragging anymore.. -
thats very true.Originally posted by laurence82:Wow, the conversation turned to me, instead of the points
I said, dont just copy paste the books...provide your own arguments too. and someone managed to twist it into ' MOE' ....
nvm, i shall see if u manage to laugh after wasting a bit of time in nti
i dont even see the old pro nti people here bragging anymore..
i have been checking into this forum everyday just to see if the 'old pro nti' or mlmers have been posting messages.
my observation thus far is a resounding - no. they don't seem to return after a while.
maybe they realised the faults of their beloved mlm and are embarassed to be back here. -
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Ok maybe u miss understood the ground i stand on
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I am not from NTI or any MLM comp. just a passerby to speak free. And not here to cause any trouble, but u have be a bit offensive. thus i went to defensive mode. anyway i apology! -
Read a lot of comments up there.. fyip, this is a forum.
Freedom of speech yea.
Jus a bit of sharing here..
So much things have been said.
There are many ways to earn money.. as to each' standard of Success in life, individuals varies...
Some people choose to work, business or engaging in investment to reach their objectives. Ultimately, all reaches one point.. but at different rate.
Im a Networker myself; still I maintain that common respect for all.. on what outcome and decision a person would choose, it's ultimately their life ya?
On a whole, businesses out there.. be it MLM or Traditional Biz, they are there to provide an income source for everybody. All organisation runs in a hierarcy plaform. The higher level you are, the more income you deem to have and of course.. resposiblities. Every individuals have to go thru the process of getting up there, be it, a boss of a company or employee.
With regards to MLM, many have negative feelings and feedback. In all kind of biz, some succeed.. many fail. Same things goes here.
Ultimately, a company success is much dependant in its marketing side.
One company can have the best product in the world, top management or hugh company asset.. to me, its factor.. but its secondary. In business simpicity, any business would need Products and Client Base, reflect on businesses you see today.. its running on the same cycle.
I can see that many members in this forum strong negative feelings with regards to MLM. I conclude that majority might have been 'burn' by it or heard feedbacks froms friends. Qns to ponder about..
Have you tab into it and gave all out for the biz?
if yes, did you meet and learn from the right people?
choosing one's mentor is important, be it even we are in the quarant of employee. you learn the right things, you see result. you do the wrong things, you get nothing. its a simple equation.
Ultimately, one thing here, factors like company profile is still very important. One should always know one's company vision and development in years t come; and of course, is the company able to support it's development? Its relates to if you are looking at it for long term or short term.
As pertaining to my personnal development, Network Marketing its has help me diversified into many business industry. Its serves as a foundation and platform to achievement of my life, not jus in terms of income. For me, money is just one part of my life and i do have many areas to further improve and achieve; friends.. family and even my leisure. Importantly, living life to the fullest and being happy the bottom line. then again, to each has its own standard of success and happiness in life. You need not have to be rich to attain that, then again, money is not the main factor in life, but it will affect other factors.
When we embark into a particular action, we always have an objective, be it seeing a movie, working or dabbing into business. Companies out there can try their best to propose that you earn tons of money if you join them; but if thats not your objective.. you would not see it and therefore commit to it. ie: I can propose you that you hit a five figure income in a month, but if you do not know why you should earn that kind of money, why do it?
my opinions are on neutral grounds, anyhow, om me if you wish to share with me. no obligations here.
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hmmmm.... i'm a new member here.. recently i've been asked to attend a mlm presentation.. so was wondering whether mlm is a gd way to earn money... i've read alot of negative viewpoint abt mlm.. isit true?? those stories abt NTI james phang etc..
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Yes, negative point will always be around, because people don't want to accept that this more than 50 years industry work better than convention industry.Originally posted by ritual:hmmmm.... i'm a new member here.. recently i've been asked to attend a mlm presentation.. so was wondering whether mlm is a gd way to earn money... i've read alot of negative viewpoint abt mlm.. isit true?? those stories abt NTI james phang etc..
To see if the company is the best for you, first, don't jump in during the first presentation they give. Next, try to know more people in that company, talk to their uplines and downlines - if they are Profession Company and Networker, they will introduce you to their other distributors. Attend their company OPP and also weekly OPP. Try to find more about their products. If the company distributor is strongly base on $, then I would advise you not to look further at this company.
Just feel free to ask me anything, and I will do my best to help you.
Lastly, NTI has been making a 'storm', but I wonder, how come, I have been so actively in this industry for many years but still haven't been their 'target'.
Bottomline ritual, do your homework. -
I missed this - Binary system works. Just take a look at USANA, they have been endourse of the BEST Compensation Plan 3 years in a row. But of course, I think only asia people like to re-invent the wheel, so, in the end, we see most of the system as "Pyramind"......
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The whole lot of arguments, evidence, points and even articles have been posted up at the original nti thread, altho wrongly labelled MTI, started by Ghost
go do check it out..
much have been said, but its alredi a norm for newcomers to come up here to defend nti, esp if they are nti agents
it doesnt matter
alredi its a trend for them to fail, and like deportivo said, they dont turn up after some time
anyway, it wont affect others but themelves, i know some crazy people threw in four figure sum only to come messaging some of the forumers for help in refund
if anyone thinks a good investment or business opportunity is throwing some money into shady company, hope some other people throw in too, and all this is not thru real selling or even pushing of products they believe in...good luck... -
my apology tooOriginally posted by Ah Jack:Ok maybe u miss understood the ground i stand on .
I am not from NTI or any MLM comp. just a passerby to speak free. And not here to cause any trouble, but u have be a bit offensive. thus i went to defensive mode. anyway i apology!
anyway, for those who seriously support nti as a non scam biz opportunity, its not my norm to cut them some slack
i got nuthing but harsh words for those who join, defend it, and pulled in some other dunderheads, aftwerwhich these victims came asking for help
its most depressing
its equally depressing when some people asked for help in pulling their frens away, and u noe u cant help.. -
blind leading the blind.....
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The math factor can be illustrated in a simple 6-level chain in which each person recruits just 5 people. at least 3 levels of recruits ( 5+25+125=155) are needed for each participant tp begin to achieve a profit based on override commissions from the purchase of the "downline".
Top level - 1
Level #2 - 5
Level #3 - 25
Level #4 - 125
Level #5 - 625
Level #6 - 3125
3906 participants total.
Since only those with 3 levels below them are profitable, only the Top Level person and the individuals in levels #2 and #3 qualify. Each of the people in the next three levels below does not have enough "downline" to generate a profit. (Those in Level #4 each have 25 in their downlines. Those in Level #5 have only 5 people, and those in Level #6 at the bottom has none. This means that 31 out of 3906 or less then 1% in the six-level chain, have as many as three levels below them and are profitable. More than 99% are unprofitable based on their positions.
This basic formula holds true no matter how much further the chain extends. Approximately 99% at the bottom of the chain which profit is not possible. For example, if the scheme recruit one more level, Level #7, another 15625 participants would join. The tota would now be 19531. The number in profitable positions, Top, and the individuals in Levels #2,#3,#4 would grow to 156, and this number would still equate to less than 1% of the 15625-person organisation.
The tricke of the scheme is to cover up this reality and to convince each and every enrollee that he/she can suceed by building this large and deep downlines. Theoretically, the bottom levels could recoup their money by finding new distributors to join under them, but that would continue to work only if the scheme could go on forever and there were an infinite number of people.
In summary, if the income opportunity depends ultimately on purchases by sales representatives that are recruited "downline" rather than on the retail sales by those sales representatives, the upline-downline structure will always requrie that the vast majority of sales representative be the bottom of the "downline". Their losses serve as the ultimate source of profit to a very small number in the "upline". The sales representatives occupying the lower level positions on the chain cannot earn a profit until they, in turn, recruit a much larger group of new recruits below them. The proportino of a very small number of sales representatives at the top, where income is possible, to the very large number at the bottom,where income is not possible, will remain the same as long as the business continues.
Whether such as scheme is deemed legal or not, the losses will occue just the same. Personal testimonies from those at the top, high motivation of participants, inspirational speakers at sales rallies, strict adherence to the "system" advised by the leaders, and extraordinary time and effort of new recruits cannot cahnge the laws of mathematics and the MLM business model, which dictate a massive "failure" rate and a miniscule "success" rate.
Courtesy of http://www.falseprofits.com. download the pdf file to read more -
how much you do you about MLM?
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In order to see if Level 5 or 6 people able to make any profit is really depend on their compensation plan. How much do you understand MLM?
I have view the link, and that link is well-known to all experience MLMer.
I don't wish to comment much on that. -
Courtesy of http://www.falseprofits.com. download the pdf file to read more
I think I must point of some of this, so here is what I feel.
As for the "False Profits" website, all I can say is that this is the same kind of thing we hear over and over about the Network Marketing business. 99% of the businesses fail, blah-blah-blah. If you simply understand that you are buying a worthwhile product at a fair price... then NOBODY loses, even those that never make any money. The "LOSERS" are those that pay lots of money simply for the opportunity... when the product is not worthwhile. The reason all Network marketing companies continues to be such a fast growth company is that the product is WORTH IT... even for the person who just buys the product.
Over 95% of traditional businesses fail too, and I doubt that 99% is an accurate figure for MLM. I've heard 95% of MLM'ers fail. Again, though, the word "fail" is subjective... they are using the word fail to mean "didn't make any money". Well... how many people have spent more money than they have made with traditional products bought at the supermarket?? Everyone! It is a unique business when you can buy a product you love AND actually make money from it.
The bellow message is to all Network Marketer:
People will choose to believe whatever they want too. If you can simply present to them a great product whether they make money or not, then you have to let them decide their next step. -
Woosh baby, i nearly missed out this topic.
Looks like james phuang have cheat numerous kids.
Hope that his own kids kana cheat back.