Taxes: Singapore Vs. Australia. Who is better off?
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although tax are high, some of the people are rather "creative" in their accounting. similar to shops everywhere else, some shop keepers insist on cash term only, and they secretly keep one cashier that is identical to the one they use in the store. so they chi-ching and ki-ching two separate ledgers, one for the taxman and one for themselves.Originally posted by reddressman:dear forummers, especially those going or already landed in Aussielando,
what are the legal ways to avoid some of the taxation in aussilando?
if got good ways, I will migrate sooner than you think.
one of the weird thing here is buying investment properties for tax reduction. -ve gearing as what they call it.. the $$$ that u pay for the interest on the loan for investment property is tax deductible, so it is not unusual to see people owning 1,3, 5, 10, or 20 properties..
last time, u can add your children and spouse into your business as your "employees" to claim off your business income, thus reducing the amount to be taxed.
there is an agreement between sg and australia to avoid double taxation.
well, that is what i know. correct me if im wrong, folks. -
Double taxation only relevant if a person is residing in both countries.Originally posted by fishbuff:although tax are high, some of the people are rather "creative" in their accounting. similar to shops everywhere else, some shop keepers insist on cash term only, and they secretly keep one cashier that is identical to the one they use in the store. so they chi-ching and ki-ching two separate ledgers, one for the taxman and one for themselves.
one of the weird thing here is buying investment properties for tax reduction. -ve gearing as what they call it.. the $$$ that u pay for the interest on the loan for investment property is tax deductible, so it is not unusual to see people owning 1,3, 5, 10, or 20 properties..
last time, u can add your children and spouse into your business as your "employees" to claim off your business income, thus reducing the amount to be taxed.
there is an agreement between sg and australia to avoid double taxation.
well, that is what i know. correct me if im wrong, folks. -
isnt this the same in Singapore?Originally posted by fishbuff:one of the weird thing here is buying investment properties for tax reduction. -ve gearing as what they call it.. the $$$ that u pay for the interest on the loan for investment property is tax deductible, so it is not unusual to see people owning 1,3, 5, 10, or 20 properties..
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Don't think interest expense is tax deductible for personal income tax purposes, moreover you still have to contend with the property tax in Singapore.Originally posted by Love Supreme:isnt this the same in Singapore? -
Sigh things aren't as rosy as it looks in Australia mate.
Housing affordability is a very big issue right now. Its considered to be in crisis stage at the moment. Just google it and you will know. Houses in most metropolitan cities have reached a point where the average Australian looking to own his first house is going to be pissing his/her pants/skirts.
Also food is a hell alot more expensive than Singapore. You get better odds winning the lotto there than find a $3.50 chicken rice. Since you pretty much require a car there, you need to spend money on maintenance and insurance and petrol.
Each country has their pros and cons, and honestly speaking Singapore isn't really that bad compared to alot of other countries. -
Any quantitative figures to back up your claim?Originally posted by Great_One:Sigh things aren't as rosy as it looks in Australia mate.
Housing affordability is a very big issue right now. Its considered to be in crisis stage at the moment. Just google it and you will know. Houses in most metropolitan cities have reached a point where the average Australian looking to own his first house is going to be pissing his/her pants/skirts.
Also food is a hell alot more expensive than Singapore. You get better odds winning the lotto there than find a $3.50 chicken rice. Since you pretty much require a car there, you need to spend money on maintenance and insurance and petrol.
Each country has their pros and cons, and honestly speaking Singapore isn't really that bad compared to alot of other countries.
Singapore:
Income per year: SG$12,000
Income Taxes: 0%
GST: 7%
Spending Power After GST: SG$11,160 [SG$12,000 x 93%]
Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)
Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]
An average waiter in Australia will have a spending power of AU$26,865, while a Singaporeans waiter will have only SG$11,160. Why do you think when we go for holidays overseas, we can afford less than an equivalent GDP per capita country like Australia or New Zealand.
You do the maths and tell me who is actually better off after personal taxes and GST.
Singaporeans or Australians???
Though Australia might have a higher personal tax structure, but their average wages are 3 to 5 times of Singaporeans. Even after deducting high taxes and GST, they still do end up with more money in the pocket than an average Singaporean. Moreover, they have no need to pay for healthcare and basic education.
Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual)
Woolworths Supermarket (Australia)
Sunrice Sunwhite Calrose Rice 5kg: AU$ 9.53
Australian Pork Roast Shoulder Boned & Rolled Min 1.5kg = AU$8.99
Cold Storage Supermarket (Singapore)
Calrose Australian Calrose Rice 5kg = SG$9.50 (Enter: Start Shopping, Grocery + Rice)
Rolled Pork Loin Rind On 1kg = SG$26.90 (Enter: Start Shopping, Meat + Pork)
Say this average Singaporean making SG$11,160 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income to pay for his PUBLIC Housing (99 year leasehold) 2 bedroom HDB of SG$183,000. At mortgage rate of 2.60% (fixed rate), he would need some 21.65 years to pay off his HDB flat. On top of this loan repayment, this Singaporean would still need to pay Property Tax + SG$110 (TV Licence)every year.
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=104489212&f=0&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&c=61344252&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1198873313
Say if an Australian making AU$26,865 (p.a. after taxes) uses all his income on an equivalent PRIVATE Landed House in Perth for AU$250,000. At a mortgage rate of 8.29% (fixed rate), he would need some 18.53 years to pay off his landed townhouse. An Australian citizen ends up in a 2 storey landed property with less than the number of years repayment, as compared to a Singaporean citizen buying a 2 bedroom HDB flat (99 year leasehold). -
Here are some quotes from the link : http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23006014-31037,00.html
"Rising interest rates, population growth and price increases caused by a shortfall in the supply of new homes are contributing to a 22-year low in affordability."
"The Australian weighted average median house price was $442,758 in the September quarter 2007, the REIA said.
Sydney had the highest median price at $538,400 followed by Perth ($455,000), Melbourne ($431,000), Canberra ($425,000), Darwin ($400,000), Brisbane ($383,500), Adelaide ($320,00) and Hobart ($317,00)."
oh and here are more links :
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23026028-13360,00.html
http://news.smh.com.au/housing-affordability-set-to-worsen/20071221-1igm.html -
You have to compare Singapoor and Australia together, else, what's the point of quoting from a country with freedom of press, where news are reported without bias and a country where the sole existence of the media is for propaganda. You would find very few negative news about Singapoor. Always news about SIA being No.1 in the year when they win, but other years when they end up No.7, they just keep quiet and sweep the dirt under the carpet. World's busiest port? That's already overtaken by the Port of Shanghai.Originally posted by Great_One:Here are some quotes from the link : http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23006014-31037,00.html
"Rising interest rates, population growth and price increases caused by a shortfall in the supply of new homes are contributing to a 22-year low in affordability."
"The Australian weighted average median house price was $442,758 in the September quarter 2007, the REIA said.
Sydney had the highest median price at $538,400 followed by Perth ($455,000), Melbourne ($431,000), Canberra ($425,000), Darwin ($400,000), Brisbane ($383,500), Adelaide ($320,00) and Hobart ($317,00)."
oh and here are more links :
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23026028-13360,00.html
http://news.smh.com.au/housing-affordability-set-to-worsen/20071221-1igm.html
Goes to show, you only hear the "good stuff" on our local media.
When I made my comparison above, I am already bias in favour of Singapore. -
Dude I was just giving my views and you asked for some evidence and I gave them to you. I am not saying that Singapore or Australia is better. I am just pointing out some problems faced in Australia. As stated in my previous post, every place has its pros and cons thats all.
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The average AUD 455,000 housing you are referring to is not for the average low wage workers.Originally posted by Great_One:Here are some quotes from the link : http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23006014-31037,00.html
"Rising interest rates, population growth and price increases caused by a shortfall in the supply of new homes are contributing to a 22-year low in affordability."
"The Australian weighted average median house price was $442,758 in the September quarter 2007, the REIA said.
Sydney had the highest median price at $538,400 followed by Perth ($455,000), Melbourne ($431,000), Canberra ($425,000), Darwin ($400,000), Brisbane ($383,500), Adelaide ($320,00) and Hobart ($317,00)."
oh and here are more links :
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23026028-13360,00.html
http://news.smh.com.au/housing-affordability-set-to-worsen/20071221-1igm.html
This landed terrace unit with an inground pool is in the CBD area, it cost around AUD 450,000.
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=104503582&f=10&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&c=16951781&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1199810329
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=104136687&f=40&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&c=16951781&s=wa&snf=rbs&tm=1199810329
A condo near Shangri-la in Singapore cost around $2 million 8 years to 9 years ago. I shudder to think what it cost today. -
u can't just take the prices at its face value... some things just can't be compared directly w/o taking into account other contributing factors...
sg land area is around 693 sq km, while sydney is about 12,144 sq km... around 17.5 times larger than sg...
sydney's population is around 4 million plus, which is quite close to that of sg...
(i googled and got these figures from non-sg websites)
sg is constrained by its land size... if we had the same land size of sydney, i guess our housing prices would be around there.... -
Right now is not the price but the affordability of the public. As stated in the my previous post, Australia is facing a housing affordability crisis. It means the average person can no longer afford a house than the average person a few years ago.
As show in this link (http://www.demographia.com/dhi-ix2005q3.pdf), Australia as you can see has no cities even in the affordable range. Scary eh X_X -
Agreed, you have to take into account other issues.Originally posted by Father Lim:u can't just take the prices at its face value... some things just can't be compared directly w/o taking into account other contributing factors...
sg land area is around 693 sq km, while sydney is about 12,144 sq km... around 17.5 times larger than sg...
sydney's population is around 4 million plus, which is quite close to that of sg...
(i googled and got these figures from non-sg websites)
sg is constrained by its land size... if we had the same land size of sydney, i guess our housing prices would be around there....
We look at direct issues such as wages (price levels), in Australia wages are 3 times higher when compared to Singapoor. So how does Singapoor justify in having properties sustained at the same level as Australia? Because HDB said it is so and subsidy (discount) was given? Housing in Australia is private whereas HDB is "public" and subsidized.
These days in Singapoor, it's difficult to differentiate what is public and what is private anymore, because public has morph into quasi-private with profit motive. -
Originally posted by Great_One:
plz loh
Right now is not the price but the affordability of the public. As stated in the my previous post, Australia is facing a housing affordability crisis. It means the average person can no longer afford a house than the average person a few years ago.
As show in this link (http://www.demographia.com/dhi-ix2005q3.pdf), Australia as you can see has no cities even in the affordable range. Scary eh X_X[/b]
i don tink i can afford a SG HDB also lohz... -
Originally posted by Great_One:
And I suppose Singapoor's PUBLIC housing is affordable?
Right now is not the price but the affordability of the public. As stated in the my previous post, Australia is facing a housing affordability crisis. It means the average person can no longer afford a house than the average person a few years ago.
As show in this link (http://www.demographia.com/dhi-ix2005q3.pdf), Australia as you can see has no cities even in the affordable range. Scary eh X_X[/b]
I had a look at the apartments sold in one of the post offices, Marine Parade HDB 2 bedrooms apartment are being transacted at $250,000 afew months ago. -
I am not saying that Australia is more affordable. All that I am highlighting is that things in Australia is tough too. Since I have no info in the present situation in Singapore, I make no assessment into the affordability of the situation. All I am saying is that even with the greater income, the average Australian has their own problems in owning a house too.
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qlqq9 and reddressman have nothing to say when figures back their views, and have plenty to say when the figures don'tOriginally posted by maurizio13:Any quantitative figures to back up your claim? -
Question:Originally posted by maurizio13:Woolworths Supermarket (Australia)
Sunrice Sunwhite Calrose Rice 5kg: AU$ 9.53
Australian Pork Roast Shoulder Boned & Rolled Min 1.5kg = AU$8.99
Cold Storage Supermarket (Singapore)
Calrose Australian Calrose Rice 5kg = SG$9.50 (Enter: Start Shopping, Grocery + Rice)
Rolled Pork Loin Rind On 1kg = SG$26.90 (Enter: Start Shopping, Meat + Pork)
Why are we comparing Australian Rice between the two countries?
Why not compare Yeo's Soyabean drink between Singapore and other countries? -
Again, as stated in another thread, you have a choice. A 5-rm flat at around Hougang (~15 years old) sells for $260kOriginally posted by maurizio13:And I suppose Singapoor's PUBLIC housing is affordable?
I had a look at the apartments sold in one of the post offices, Marine Parade HDB 2 bedrooms apartment are being transacted at $250,000 afew months ago. -
marine parade is one of the more highly coverted estates... close to the city and close to the beaches.... and i think that's one of the more extreme cases...Originally posted by maurizio13:And I suppose Singapoor's PUBLIC housing is affordable?
I had a look at the apartments sold in one of the post offices, Marine Parade HDB 2 bedrooms apartment are being transacted at $250,000 afew months ago.
like the fella paying $700k for a hdb flat...
soemtiems it's these fellas who make life difficult for the rest of us...
i've checked ERA's website... in sengkang, a 4-room flat goes for as low as $240k while a 5-room flat goes for $310k...
if u ask me, i dun mind staying at sengkang... in fact i stayed there for about a month and had no complains....
a little bit more inconvenient but much more cheaper...
sometimes it's just paying for the convenience of staying somewhat closer to the city... -
Yet the price of a terrace house is less than 17.5 times the amount in Aussie.Originally posted by Father Lim:u can't just take the prices at its face value... some things just can't be compared directly w/o taking into account other contributing factors...
sg land area is around 693 sq km, while sydney is about 12,144 sq km... around 17.5 times larger than sg...
sydney's population is around 4 million plus, which is quite close to that of sg...
(i googled and got these figures from non-sg websites)
sg is constrained by its land size... if we had the same land size of sydney, i guess our housing prices would be around there.... -
Taking NEL train, Sengkang is about 20 mins train ride to CityOriginally posted by Father Lim:marine parade is one of the more highly coverted estates... close to the city and close to the beaches.... and i think that's one of the more extreme cases...
like the fella paying $700k for a hdb flat...
soemtiems it's these fellas who make life difficult for the rest of us...
i've checked ERA's website... in sengkang, a 4-room flat goes for as low as $240k while a 5-room flat goes for $310k...
if u ask me, i dun mind staying at sengkang... in fact i stayed there for about a month and had no complains....
a little bit more inconvenient but much more cheaper...
sometimes it's just paying for the convenience of staying somewhat closer to the city... -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
How about using your calculations method on the average wage instead:
[b]Singapore:
Income per year: SG$12,000
Income Taxes: 0%
GST: 7%
Spending Power After GST: SG$11,160 [SG$12,000 x 93%]
Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)
Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]
[/b]
Singapore:
Average income per month: SG$3654 (average of 1st 3 quarters of 2007)
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/others/mrsd/statistics/Earnings_and_Wages.html
Average income per year: SG$43,848
Income Taxes: $900 + $327.08 = $1,227.08
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit/iit-se-a1.1.15+tax+rates+for+resident+individuals.asp
GST: 7%
Average income after Income Taxes: SG$42,620.92
Spending Power After GST: SG$39,637 [SG$42620.92 x 93%]
Australia:
Average income per year = $55,660 => translates to AU$4638 per month which is greater numerically than SG$3654 per month
http://www.britzinoz.com/info/wages.htm
Income Taxes: $2850 + $9198= $12,048
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Average income after Income Taxes: AU$43,612
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$39,250.8 [AU$43,612 x 90%] -
Likewise, there are cheaper suburbs housing in Australia.Originally posted by Father Lim:marine parade is one of the more highly coverted estates... close to the city and close to the beaches.... and i think that's one of the more extreme cases...
like the fella paying $700k for a hdb flat...
soemtiems it's these fellas who make life difficult for the rest of us...
i've checked ERA's website... in sengkang, a 4-room flat goes for as low as $240k while a 5-room flat goes for $310k...
if u ask me, i dun mind staying at sengkang... in fact i stayed there for about a month and had no complains....
a little bit more inconvenient but much more cheaper...
sometimes it's just paying for the convenience of staying somewhat closer to the city...
The prices quoted by your are average prices, averages of what? Prices I took from the post office is transacted price in Marine Parade. I see 3 bedrooms and 4 bedrooms HDB in Marine Parade hitting close to half a million dollars. These are transacted price, not averages. -
I am surprised, 2 bedroom HDB (Marine Parade) in Marine Crescent can hit a high of $345,000 in Dec 2007.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/bb33/ispm051p.nsf/Search